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First I'm missing "installer downloads" in the subcomponents of www. On the NetBeans download page there is a small link to get the OS independent ZIP. The link is often overseen (see discussion on NetCat's mailing list). Better add "OS independent ZIP" to the OS combo box.
I'm guessing you are referring to the new 6.0 pre-release downloads pages, eg http://dlc.sun.com/netbeans/download/6_0/beta1/ ?
Yes, of course.
Frankly speaking I would not expect the "OS independent ZIP" to be the list of the operation systems... CC-ing Jan Rojcek.
I mean, you should provide both, the entry in the combobox _and_ the link in the fine-print. Then nobody can claim, not to find it.
In one of the original proposals for the download page I wanted "zip" distributions shown in the OS combo box. For me it belongs there. But as Dmitry (dlipin) pointed out, it probably wouldn't be obvious to everyone, but as the link is easily overlooked, we should consider it.
I'd agree adding it to the combo is a good idea.
I really wonder how we can do that the best. Imagine that the user choose "OS independent ZIP" in the compobox. After that we have two options: 1) Just after he/she closed the combobox start downloading (move to the start.html page). - It is not clear which zip to download (cpp-mobility-javase-all). - I don`t think that is what the user expects. 2) Close the box and somehow point the user to the download link. You can ask me why don`t use standard "Download" buttons ? I do think that it can really confuse the user : he/she can (I - definitely would) expect the runtimes to be included in the zip. In reality they are not there and can`t be there at all (since runtimes are platform-dependent). We can certainly mark all the runtimes as not available in this download (like we don`t have Mobility for MacOS and Solaris).. but we can`t show here that e.g. WTK is not included in Mobility (and in All) bundle. Passing the ball to Jano.
Regarding 1) : I had a similar problem with the old downloads interface. If there was no installer for the detected platform/lang, I displayed a list of all available zip distros (tgz, bz2, zip), with radio buttons. Depending on detected platform I auto-selected one type (eg zip for Windows). It was a bit ugly, but it did allow the user to get what they wanted. I realise it is more complex with many packs etc.
IMO we should have a zip archive for each column in the table *excluding* the runtimes. We can indicate excluded runtimes the same way we do it for missing UML for Mac. We also need to add a note that runtimes used by SOA, Mobility and the like are missing as well. Would that work?
lets implement this logic on the download page and then we`ll see whether it works or not.
Regarding 1) and the normal link "zip file format" ... the page http://dlc.sun.com/netbeans/download/6_0/beta1/zip/ is very ugly, because all file names are truncated to 'netbeans-6.0beta1-200+'.
The "OS independent zip" option has been added to the combobox. Everyone, who is interested, please check the latest build and share your opinion on that. http://bits.nbextras.org/download/6.0/nightly/latest/
Looks good to me. Thanks! I would just suggest to capitalize the item to "OS Independent ZIP". And to make it complete, we need to squeeze another note below the combo so it says something like this: --- Note: GlassFish V2 Build 58g and Apache Tomcat 6.0.14 are not available in OS Independent Zip. Mobility pack doesn't work on Solaris and Mac OS X. UML doesn't work on Mac OS X. --- Or something similar with the same meaning.
Jano, 1) the name has been capitalized 2) I can`t fully agree with you adding this (Mobility pack doesn't work...UML doesn`t work...) extra sentence here. Actually there a couple of more problems here. First, WTK is not included in the zip distribution. That is why this zip file will not work (in terms of Mobility) either on Windows or Linux. User has to install (download) WTK separately. Certainly we can point the user to the WTK download page (http://java.sun.com/products/sjwtoolkit/download.html). Actually Mobility does work on Solaris and MacOS. The critical thing is that Sun doesn`t provide the emulators. But who says that they do not exist :) If you are interested you can contact Lukas Hasik or Martin Ryzl for the info. Second, OpenESB runtime is not included in the zip distro and so most of SOA functinality will not work. Third, UML do work on Mac. Bad but work :) If you put all this info on the downloade page then it will look like a garbage. Maybe add also this info in the Release Notes? I know that nobody reads them.. Maybe make just a link on the download page about ZIP distro that would point to Release Notes/Install Instructions section about the content of the zip files?
Hey cool, optically it's perfect. Regarding the notes: IMO the notes below the combo box should only provide info which is _not_obvious_ from the graphic. I propose: As ZIP Packs are restrained in their content refer to the _Release_Notes/Install_Instructions_. Alternative: Why not add the WTK, OpenESB etc. to the Runtimes section? This will make many things much clearer. I wonder that the size of the zip version of j2se pack is twice to the installer version, whether the zip version of the mobility pack is much smaller. Is this correct?
ulfzibis, > IMO the notes below the combo box should only provide info which is _not_obvious_ from the graphic. good idea. but some users disable showing graphics > Alternative: Why not add the WTK, OpenESB etc. to the Runtimes section? This will make many things much clearer. OpenESB is hidden by design : Q to Jano why (maybe because most of the users don`t know what is it and what is it for..) WTK is not in the list due to technical limitation. WTK is the essential part of Mobility so it is not listed as the separate component here. I tend to think to WTK needs to be moved to separate component. Anyway not for 6.0. Adding Trung, our architect, to CC list. > I wonder that the size of the zip version of j2se pack is twice to the installer version, whether the zip version of the mobility pack is much smaller. Is this correct? This is correct. j2se zip contains all the same data as in j2se installer. The installer size is much smaller since pack200 compressions is used to save the space. As for mobility.. from one side, mobility zip does not contain WTK, from the other side installer includes WTK but pack200 compression reduces the common size.
> > IMO the notes below the combo box should only provide info which is _not_obvious_ from the graphic. > good idea. but some users disable showing graphics How can they hit the button, if they don't see the graphic ? OK, the grayed Mobility button could be overseen (also omit/gray the bullets or replace by hyphens), but the other notes are superfluous, and incomplete in case of ZIP. > OpenESB is hidden by design : Q to Jano why (maybe because most of the users don`t know what is it and what is it for..) A short comment in () that it serves SOA would help! (Could you cc this to Jano?) > WTK is not in the list due to technical limitation. > WTK is the essential part of Mobility so it is not listed as the separate component here. Isn't an application server an essential part of the EE, and the JDK the essential part of NetBeans itself? IMHO it is not obvious to all users, that their regular installed WTK is worthless and superfluous. Additionally it would be helpful to see it's version as for Glassfish and Tomcat. So please don't wait until WTK is moved to a separate component.
I see. It's more complicated then I thought. The note needs to be different. How about more specific: --- Note: GlassFish, Apache Tomcat, WTK and OpenESB are not included in ZIP distribution. --- It doesn't explain the consequences, but those who know what they're doing are informed. OpenESB isn't part of the download table because my understanding is that it's a component of GlassFish. It certainly doesn't have it's own item in the "Add/Remove" dialog on windows.
Marking as fixed (zip combobox has been added). All the rest tweaking would be done in the new download page design.