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Bug 68053 - Need "expert" mode in cvs-lite for update, status, etc.
Summary: Need "expert" mode in cvs-lite for update, status, etc.
Alias: None
Product: versioncontrol
Classification: Unclassified
Component: CVS (show other bugs)
Version: 5.x
Hardware: All All
: P2 blocker with 2 votes (vote)
Assignee: issues@versioncontrol
: 114445 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Reported: 2005-11-03 18:39 UTC by kcr
Modified: 2007-09-03 17:06 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Exception Reporter:


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Description kcr 2005-11-03 18:39:29 UTC
In other CVS systems, including the old CVS module in NB4, you can access the
list of options for "cvs update" and other commands via an "expert mode" that
brings up a dialog box. This allows for specifying options such as "get the
clean copy" (-C), "preview" (-n), and so forth. Similarly for cvs status (which
I couldn't even figure out how to do), I'd like the "verbose" (-v) option to be
Comment 1 _ pkuzel 2005-11-04 11:53:43 UTC
Please supply your daily usecase. Expert mode was intentionaly stripped out.

NB 5.0+ CVS integration UI ( focus on
daily workflow integration. All features that do not fit in are unlikely to be

On REOPEN supply compeling usecase, please.
Thank you
Comment 2 kcr 2005-11-04 17:57:58 UTC
> Expert mode was intentionaly stripped out.

By removing this, you've taken away functionality that existed in a previous
release. Without much thought, it seems, to possible use cases that don't fit
your view of the way things ought to work.

Here are 5 things that I sometimes want to do, that an expert mode would
accomodate, and which I can't find a way to do now.

1) "-n" option for preview mode -- it is often essential to be able to preview
changes before doing them.

2) Specify the "-w" and "-b" options to diff; these are invaluable in
suppressing diffs that are just a result of indentation, conversion of tabs to
spaces, or reformatting. The cvs diff feature is less useful without this.

3) "Quiet mode" (-q option) on all cvs commands. The "updating directory XXXX"
messages in a project with a very deep directory structure can overwhelm the
rest of the output making it difficult to see what you are looking for.

4) The "-v" verbose mode to cvs status (for that matter, how does one even *do*
cvs status in NB5!?)

5) Ability to specify the "-r" option to diff to compare with a specific revision.

6) I came up with 5 off the top of my head, but the main point is that there may
well be more that other users will find useful (e.g., turning on/off the "-d"
option to update). How unfortunate that you have removed this capability.

I would argue that when removing a feature such as this, the burden should be on
the development team to prove that it isn't needed, not on the user who finds
the feature useful.
Comment 3 kcr 2005-11-04 21:38:11 UTC
One more thing. There is no way to do a true "cvs update -C" to get the clean
copy for all files. Note that "Revert File" only works on individual files (or
selected groups of files) and cannot be applied to a directory. This is a very
useful feature.
Comment 4 _ pkuzel 2005-11-15 17:28:54 UTC
Possible equvalents:

1) CVS: Show changes
2) [no alternative]
3) it's default (not in beta)
4) CVS: Show changes
5) CVS: Search History
+ Revert should work at all levels (file, folder, project). (not in beta)
Comment 5 kcr 2005-11-16 22:54:22 UTC
I wasn't providing an exhaustive list of problems that need to be addressed in
order to obviate the need of an expert mode. Rather, I was providing a few
off-the-top-of-my-head examples of why having an expert mode is a good thing. My
main point is that there are many use cases not covered by the existing
functionality, and even if you address all the ones you can think of, there will
be other users who want to do something that you didn't think of, unless you
provide all of the underlying functionality of CVS. Basically, you have removed
features between 4.1 to 5.0 that some users will miss. Other GUIs still have
these features. That isn't a good thing.

Making simple things easy while still making complex things possible is a good
goal. One that seems to have been lost here.

As for the specific concerns I raised:

1) CVS: Show changes

You could probably argue that this gives you enough information that you don't
really need the "-n" preview option, but it still seems like a useful thing to have.

2) [no alternative]

This is a very useful feature, especially when reformatting code, or
adding/removing a nesting level. In fact it is so useful, that the CVS server on uses "-w" as a default when generating its automated CVS putback
notification e-mail, so that spurious changes are elided.

4) CVS: Show changes

CVS: Show changes isn't even close to being a replacement for "cvs status". The
latter shows status and sticky tag information for all selected files (modified
or not). The "-v" option shows all branch and revision tags for all files.

5) CVS: Search History

This looks like a selection-based UI on an individual file basis. How would I,
for example, do a diff between the current workspace and a specific revision or
branch tag for the entire project?
Comment 6 jdavi 2005-11-18 14:42:37 UTC
I have to go to the command line a lot of times because in NB 5 there isn't a
"advanced option". (I starting enabling and disbaling the old CVS, but the old
CVS looses all the CVS configuration every time you disables it).
 On the top of my head:
   * "real diffs"  without all the ones produced by indentation.
   * See the status info of a file (stick tags, version number...)
   * Diff against an specific version or branch.
Comment 7 _ pkuzel 2005-11-21 10:11:07 UTC
> uses "-w" as a default
> * "real diffs"  without all the ones produced by indentation.

OK, recent NB 5.0 builds too. Thanks for catching it.

> CVS: Show changes isn't even close to being a replacement for "cvs status".

Right, CVS: Search History maps to "cvs status". I was refering to Show changes
because most users complain about cvs status verbosity. (Users feedback was
incorporated in Subversion so svn status behaves like IDE's Show changes. :-)

> 5) CVS: Search History

There is room for flow improvement. Now CVS: Search History and CVS: Export Diff

> * See the status info of a file (stick tags, version number...)

Intention was to visualize these in Properties window. But it requires API
changes, subject of platform RFEs prioritization...


> Rather, I was providing a few
> off-the-top-of-my-head examples of why having an expert mode is a good thing.
> My main point is that there are many use cases not covered by the existing

It's intention, IDE supports daily tasks. It's not be fullfeatured visual CVS
frontend. The simplification is a feature, IDE's added value.

I admit that support for some daily use cases may be missing. We are collecting
these, later on prioritizing them.
Comment 8 kirillkh 2007-03-15 13:54:48 UTC
Please see Issue #93591 for an additional use case example. I, too, think that
the advanced CVS features should all be made available again.
Comment 9 Maros Sandor 2007-09-03 17:06:15 UTC
*** Issue 114445 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***