Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Full Text Issue Listing
|Summary:||Chinese punctuation mark misalinged|
|Component:||code||Assignee:||AOO issues mailing list <issues>|
|Status:||CONFIRMED ---||QA Contact:|
|Priority:||P3||CC:||frank.meies, issues, jeonghoon.lee.kr, jeongkyu.kim, l6g, stefan.baltzer, tora3, ulf.stroehler, y-catch|
|Version:||OOo 1.1 RC5||Keywords:||needhelp|
|Issue Type:||DEFECT||Latest Confirmation in:||---|
Description hwtan 2003-07-24 03:32:25 UTC
Sometime when a punctuation mark happened to be the last character of a line it will not be justified as the other characters but is left out the page margine. I am using unicode fonts with Twinbridge CP 5.0. I am unable to produce a good pdf file because OOo does not allow me to embed the Chinese font. I am using the English OOo. Thank you and regards. Tan, Hong Woon PS. Please contact me at email@example.com if there is any solution on this bug.
Comment 1 hwtan 2003-07-30 09:27:01 UTC
I do a little work around of the problem by adding a space and the punctuation marks in the Tools, Options, Language Settings, Asian Layout, 'first and last characters', 'not at start of line' because I find that OOo Writer moves the space to the next line and left the punctuation mark misaligned. This method works but the bug still exists.
Comment 3 utomo99 2003-09-24 11:27:25 UTC
Please try using the latest OOo 1.1 Rc5, Your version already old enough, and many bug fixes since your version and 1.1 RC5. If the problem still happend in 1.1 RC5 please report back There is already some problem solving on OOo 1.1 Rc 5 for chinese character. please try it.
Comment 4 hwtan 2003-10-06 03:10:29 UTC
I have tried 1.1 rc. 5. Problem still exist.
Comment 5 frank.meies 2003-10-06 08:23:50 UTC
FME->hwtan: Try to disable 'Format - Paragraph - Asian Typography - Allow hanging punctuation'.
Comment 6 hwtan 2003-10-18 03:58:16 UTC
The "allow hanging punctuation" is the culprit.
Comment 7 ulf.stroehler 2004-01-09 14:20:50 UTC
Hanging punctuation is a feature, thus this issue is due to user error. Changing the flags accordingly.
Comment 8 ulf.stroehler 2004-01-09 14:21:47 UTC
issue is invalid (s. above).
Comment 9 ulf.stroehler 2004-01-09 14:22:08 UTC
Comment 10 adah 2006-04-18 03:15:58 UTC
From the correctness point of view, this is not an issue. However, from the usability point of view, this *is* an issue (it has puzzled me quite some time). I would seriously suggest disabling the "allow hanging punctuation" option by default: 1) Disabling this option won't cause headaches, since people really wanting it can enable it anyhow (though I doubt anyone would want it); 2) I do not remember reading Chinese documents with punctuation marks out of the margin.--This is ugly! I am Chinese (in PRC), by the way.
Comment 11 ulf.stroehler 2006-04-18 09:56:09 UTC
@adah: (personally) completely agreed. But how do we convince User Experience Team to change the default which was hopefully well thought off once we introduced the feature. Would you bring this issue to a broader audience e.g. by discussing in one of OO.o's mailing lists; e.g. openoffice.l10n.dev in oder to get votes for this issue? us->tora(cc): any preferences (default: on/off) in regard of hanging punctuation in writer for the japanese community?
Comment 12 ulf.stroehler 2006-04-18 09:57:55 UTC
transferring to sba.
Comment 13 tora3 2006-04-18 10:20:31 UTC
us: thank you for inviting me for this topic. Japanese community has been discussing this topic for many years and has currently concluded that: - The option "allow hanging punctuation" is enabled as default. (no change) - Hanged punctuations should be pushed inside of right margin. (new feature) Maybe, we would need a discussion on some mailing lists to invent good solutions.
Comment 14 stefan.baltzer 2006-04-18 10:36:31 UTC
SBA-FL: Looks like we need to re-think defaults and features. Time for User Experience to join :-) Please proceed.
Comment 15 ulf.stroehler 2006-05-19 17:36:03 UTC
sorry for the late reply; must have missed the last bug-mails. I had the chance to talk to our former CJK-UserExperience expert Falko and he also had no objections on changing the default for Chinese but Japanese would probably be different according to him. @tora: > Maybe, we would need a discussion on some mailing lists to invent good solutions. firstname.lastname@example.org would that be ok? Feel free to cc me in person (email@example.com).
Comment 16 hwtan 2006-05-22 02:58:16 UTC
Can the default be set according to the setting in Tools-Options-Language Settings-Languages-Default Languages for Documents-Asians?
Comment 17 tora3 2006-05-22 08:58:27 UTC
I can agree with the following requirement: Punctuation should not be located beyond the right/bottom margin as default. The point is how Office software achieves that. - Microsoft Office 2003 Japanese uses the following options as default: - Allow hanging punctuations: Enabled - Character space control: Compress only punctuation - Alignment: Justified Those options together achieve complex requirement. Punctuation is internally allowed to be beyond the margin, but the line including the punctuation is compressed within the margin. The compression here means that spaces between characters in the line are slightly reduced. - OpenOffice.org 2.0.x uses the following options as default: - Allow hanging punctuations: Enabled - Character space control: (Not yet implemented) - Alignment: Left Due to lack of character space control, current OpenOffice.org cannot compress the line, consequently, the punctuation is left beyond the margin. Here is another aspect of view: If a user does not touch the option "Allow hanging punctuation," Microsoft Office 2003 will not store the status of the option into the document file. In another hand, once a user change the option, the Office will store the status of the option in the document file. From the behavior mentioned above, for better compatibility to Microsoft Office Japanese, OpenOffice.org (tuned for Japanese) should treat the option as enabled if the status cannot be found in the document file. That suggests that the same option in OpenOffice.org (tuned for Japanse) should be enabled as default. Could you look into the similar features around hanging punctuation with other Office software such as foreign applications like Microsoft Office and domestic applications before we jump into conclusion? Here is a report for Japanese Office software (sorry, written in Japanese): http://openoffice.s16.xrea.com:8080/pukiwiki/pukiwiki.php?%5B%5Booowriterdefaultsettings%5D%5D
Comment 18 ulf.stroehler 2006-05-22 10:26:21 UTC
Tora, thanks for your evaluation. > Punctuation is > internally allowed to be beyond the margin, but the line including > the punctuation is compressed within the margin. Pls. excuse my ignorance, but what is the true benefit of this behaviour in MS Office? If I understood well, the document effectively would be layouted as if Hanging Punctuation would be disabled, right? Hence, would it be acceptable also for the Japanese OpenOffice Users Group to not default to Hanging Punctuation but still have it as an option for the advanced users?
Comment 19 ulf.stroehler 2006-05-22 10:32:06 UTC
@tora: sorry, missed the following statement: > I can agree with the following requirement: > Punctuation should not be located beyond the right/bottom margin as default. so we already reached a consensus.
Comment 20 jeongkyu.kim 2006-10-02 03:52:24 UTC
jeongkyu -> tora: Thanks for letting me know about this issue. > Japanese community has been discussing this topic for many years and has > currently concluded that: > - The option "allow hanging punctuation" is enabled as default. (no change) > - Hanged punctuations should be pushed inside of right margin. (new feature) I belive that the requirements for Korean users on this issue are identical to the ones from Japanese community. jeongkyu -> jeonghoonlee: How do you think?
Comment 21 eric.savary 2009-09-20 13:10:05 UTC
*** Issue 105214 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 22 arinya 2010-04-08 05:58:59 UTC
"Allowing hanging punctuation" will also allow punctuation character not to be printed out because punctuation char isn't always kept in the right page margin. So, it's a serious problem if you can image such a situation, a man has been writing his book for a long time, but have a great opportunity to get a punctuation missing version of his book after he print it out. More seriously, he may fail to find the issue and then hand many copies out.
Comment 23 hwtan 2010-04-08 07:53:25 UTC
Since different language community has different requirement, cann't the default be set according to the language setting in Options-Language Settings-Languages-Default Languages for Documents?
Comment 24 arinya 2010-04-08 13:46:53 UTC
I recommend change this issue to a feature request if possible - Hanged punctuations should be pushed inside of right margin. (new feature)