Issue 20344

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added keyword Q-PCD

*** Issue 21880 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

As discussed, to you.

As discussed, to you.

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See for Specification at:
http://specs.openoffice.org/chart/wizards/NewChartWizard.sxw

updated summary

I have had a look at the spec and hope I am right here for comments:

(1) At a first glance I have missed "XY Chart". Then I saw "Lines and Symbols"
in illustration 20 and "Lines and Points" in illustration 19. Are they the "XY
Chart"? If yes, it is no good idea to change the name, because I, as user,
cannot identify it. If no, then the "XY Chart" is missing.

(2) The illustration 19 differs from illustration 20 and list in section 7.4

(3) Where has the old "Lines"-chart gone? Is it subordinate to "Columns-Lines"?

(4) Concerning your comment in "Notes": Two charts on the same data are used in
education, when you discuss which type of chart is best fitting.

(5) I don't like that the default position should be bottom left to the data,
which is below the data, if I understand it right. That is unsuitable if your
data series is a long column. Why not place it at the top, by the right side of
the data or make it dependent on the choose of data series in rows vs columns?

Ingrid -> Regina:

 First, thank you for your feedbak :-).

(1) and (3): The distinction betwenn XY- and Line-Chart we had so far, has
confused a lot of users, as the associated icons do pretend that the difference
is having either lines or points. This visible difference does hide the more
importand difference that the Line-Chart uses categories at the x-axis whereas
the XY-Chart uses numerical x values. 
We addressed this confusion problem by replacing the two former charttypes by
one new main charttype 'Lines and Points'. The different decisions 
a) wether you would like to have points or lines and
b) wether you would like to have categories or numarical x values
then can be made on the same page as subsettings of this new chartype.
Illustration 21 shows the planned controls for this. Well the picture is not
completly up to date. The string 'x axis with values' should be replaced with 'x
axis with categories'.
Do you think that a different name for 'Lines and Points' would make it easier
for you to switch?

(2): Sorry, it's just because  the specification is still work in progress and
the names for the new main type list are still discussed.

(4): Ok, good to know that, thanks.

(5): Yes, I do share your opinion here completely.

> Do you think that a different name for 'Lines and Points' would make it easier
for you to switch?

Yes, the name should contain 'XY' too. Like I missed 'XY', I think, other users
will miss it too. And besides it would help those coming from Excel, where they
used 'XY (Scatter)'. But it is difficult to find a good name, because something
like 'Lines and Points, XY' can lead to the opinion, that it contains only
'numerical x values' but no 'categories'. Perhaps a 'Lines, Points or XY' can work.

> associated icons do pretend that the difference is having either lines or points

The icons were not very helpful, indeed. For 'XY' I would have sugguest a
mathematical function-plot. But if such icon will be still right, when you put
'lines' and 'XY' together, I don't know.

> The string 'x axis with values' should be replaced with 'x axis with categories'

I teach pupils in using Calc. I find, that it is very difficult for pupils to
distinguish between 'categories' and 'numerical x values' at all. A simple
check-box will not help them. Is it possible to have a picture in addition or at
least a tooltip, which tells an example? Up to now you get no information
concerning that difference, neither in a tooltip nor in online-help.
Another thing: Why do you use a check-box? There are two settings which exclude
one another. I think that is typical for radio-buttons.

kind regards, Regina
  

*** Issue 29466 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

according to http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releases&msgNo=7690
this issue will be set to OOoLater

*** Issue 35925 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

I would just like to say that I am very dissapointed that the chart module will
not be improved for version 2.  It is one of the biggest weaknesses of OOo
relative to competing products - or even relative to old stagers like Quattro 4
- and will seriously impact takeup of OOo for serious office use in many
organisations.

I understand the practicallities of software development, and the timescale
problems, but do wonder about priorities.  How many
nice-but-not-important-to-the-user changes like API tidying and internal
structure changes have been done, while this very visible shortcoming languishes.

Once 2.0 is out of the way, I suggest that the organisation needs to concentrate
on ease-of-use stuff that impacts ordinary users, like the charting issue or the
frustrations of handling csv files, rather than any more computer science stuff
under the bonnet.

I like OOo and will continue to proselitise for it, but the team have to face
the commercial reality they are in.  I am grateful that the project exists at
all, and admiring of it, but it would be a shame if this sort of oversight were
to lead it to disaster.

->bobharvey: Thank you for your comment. I do share your estimation about the
importance of the chart. It was even decided to create a new chart to be able to
integrate some important missing features. This was necessary because the old
code has come to the end of its possibilities in some areas. Creating this
complete new module was and is a very big task. We saw that it is too big to fit
into the timeline with the available resources. Thus some hard decisions were made.

I'm voting for this issue!

User feedback (if this is not the right forum, please let me know):

This week-end my 9-yr son and I were working on his science project. So I 
decided to create all the documents in OOo (version m71). At one point we had 
to create a chart from the data he had collected.  What I found the most 
frustrating about creating the chart in Calc was that the data sources for the 
data, legends and other items could not be idependently selected; and once the 
chart was created, I could not find a way to change the legend. 

bobharvey: Good comment, but I think changes "under the bonnet" are necessary 
for the integrity of the applications and fewer bugs. IMHO I would have rather 
waited on the database, and focus on fixing items such as a new chart 
implementation.

OOo folks: Keep up the good work!

set target for new chart issues

changed title of this issue for easier searching

*** Issue 58404 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

added URL to specification

Changed target to 2.x

 As you know, I have created Issue 67518 to improve the GUI for editting charts.
 I stated that a powerful ui could also be the chart wizard if the advanced
options are selectable but not displayed with a button.

The idea of a default chart for OOo is a very good idea.  Put this under Tools >
Options > Charts.  But allow it to be changed in the Chart GUI/Wizzard if the
user wishes.  If I set up my default chart as X-Y using lines, then using the
quick create, I would select my data series, X, first, then Y1..Yn, then click
on the chart tool.

A UI opens to confirm my selections.  All the series are displayed as well as a
picture of the chart type.  I have the option of selcting create chart, clicking
on a change series button or to change the chart from default.  Then I can
select more advanced features if required.

As lamarcbr says, creating a chart is problematic, editting it after is even worse.

->mestech: customizable defaults for charts will be addressed within issue
12581. Please add your comments there.
The issue here will concentrate on the new wizard and creation process that is
already implemented in CWS chart2mst3. See the ongoing specification at
http://specs.openoffice.org/chart/wizards/NewChartWizard.sxw .
If you have extra requests please open single separat issues. Mega request
collections cannot be handled reasonably. Please have a look at the basic issue
tracker rules:
http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/basic_rules.html
Thanks.

I have been trying the milestone 7 with the new chart wizard for over a week now
and I will say the the Wizard is better than the present release version but it
still is not good and overly complicated to use.  I know that it isn't complete
and that it is still Alpha but this is the time to fix any problems and issues.

I am using it as I write this.

Select data and Instert Chart.

At present it is extremely slow with a large amount of data.  It creates a chart
on the current sheet and if you make changes in the chart wizard it will re-draw
the chart.  This is done before you even select create.  As a preview it is nice
though but could be hidden by the wizard so may be missed.

I feel that the Data range dialog is useless with the data series dialog.  This
is just a duplication of setting the range.  It is even worse if you don't have
consectutive data ranges.  For ease of use, many users wouldn't know what this
actually means.  For more advanced users, this could be useful.

Now the Data series dialog is a problem itself.  I have an x-y plot that has 10
series all based on the same X value.  I want to change the X series range.  I
have to change each one individually with the associated re-draws that take time.

I would prefer to setup an X series for all the various Y series and then if I
need a different X series, I can add it and then select the range for each
series.  Like a tick box for X1 or X2 or X3 if they exist.  Much easier to make
changes.

Now I am trying to do an X-Y Line chart using data from a real tasking.  This
tasking uses a "representitive spreadsheet" that is posted to issue 67518.

I very rarely use data where X is in the first column of the data range.  In
most cases, the X column is added later so will be in a different and later
column or sheet.

Also, if you are changing the data series and hit enter as you would normally do
when making a change, your Wizard is closed.  Now you have to go back and edit
the chart.  It would be nice if there was an apply button added that was the
default action.  This could also speed up the changing of data as a re-draw only
would have to take place once the "apply" is selected.  Yea, I know about the
uplink type icon.  It just doesn't take precident if you hit enter.  I had to
restart numerous times because of this.  Of course if you don't click the icon
anc change to a new series, you lose your changes anyways even though the graph
has been updated in the example.


Adding a series is not intuitive and you cannot select broken/disconnected
series for your data range.  I tried to make a chart using the data that has the
X-series in Column N, and Y1, Y2 and Y2 in Columns B, F and J.

I selected the N column as my data range.  Guess what, it doesn't show up in a
Line chart.  I need to use X-Y (scatter).  Another issue about chart type
defenition as discussed earlier in this issue.  I now try to add the series by
clicking on add.  I get a generic name with no data which is expected.  I select
Name and enter in a value (this is working like a database).  After clicking the
"insert icon" I would expect the description "Data Series" to change the name
from "New Series" to the value I input.  It doesn't so my legend now says "New
Series" instead of the name I entered"  Repeat this a number of times and all
series names in the legend are "New Series".

I go to enter the X and Y values to be slowed down as there is a re-draw with
each edit.  About 30 minutes to enter in a three Y series graph with only one X
value.

Once the chart is created, I try to modify the data range and I get "Modify
chart data range" dialog with an empty range box.  No tabs or any other
selections.  Again this could be due to the status of the development.

Now I don't expect the wizard to be the same as Excel or Quattro Pro (I actually
hope it is better) but at present the QP one is much better than even the
milestone 7 wizard.  This isn't only my opinion of those that I have talked to.
 o see an example of the QP one, look at the Graphing Quattro Pro attachment.

I should be able to select/edit my Series ranges from the spreadsheet using a
mouse by either clicking on the sheet or clicking a button.

Data shouldn't have to be X,Y,Y,Y etc order in the spreadsheet.  If I have to
edit the range, I shouldn't have to wait for a redraw each time I enter a digit.
 I would hate this to be working on a 200,000 cell series of data.  30,000 is
bad enough.

I would like to be able to edit all my X ranges or Y ranges at one time.  It is
much easier to see what changes need to be made to a each series instead of each
one individually and having to make notes between series dialogs similiar to
what Quattro Pro does.

Created attachment 38026 [details]
Graphing Quattro Pro tutorial

Hi messtech. Thanks for you coments and trying the Milestone 7 :-).

1) I see the severe problem with the live preview and a big amount of data and
added an according point to the specification.
2) You were not able to create a line chart from a single range. I think this is
due to the wrong defaults in the Data Range page. If you disable 'First
Row/Column as Label' then you should get a line. This problem is addressed with
issue 66867.
3) There are problems with hitting 'Enter' in the cellrange editfields. Could
you please write a separat issue to bm for this.
4) After creation of the chart you get an empty DataRange Dialog somehow. Could
you please submit a separat issue to bm with a concrete example.
5) Selecting series by button and mouse will be possible when the Range Chooser
button is implemented. This is part of Issue 3997 that concentrates on the both
range pages - Data Ranges and Data Series
4) I am not sure what you mean with:
"you cannot select broken/disconnected series for your data range."
Could you please submit a separat issue to bm with a concrete example.
7) The other problems you point to (intuitive adding and selection of series )
are also related to the Data Range and Data Series Page which are separately
addressed in Issue 3997. Could you please discuss them there with bm or maybe
better globally at the graphics-dev mailinglist. Then the result of the
discussion could be posted into the issue. Thanks a lot.

I hope I didn't oversaw any point.
And thanks again for trying the Milestone 7!
Ingrid

The specification has a new place:
http://specs.openoffice.org/chart/wizards/ChartWizard.odt

preliminary spec done

changed target to 2.3

Fixed in CWS chart2mst3.

The chart creation procedure has been simplified to take less steps.
The chart is positioned automatically and serves as live preview. A
new wizard offers to select the chart type as first user action. The
type can be selected on a single page. There is no need to switch
between pages or scroll around anymore.

The chart type dialog has been replaced thus it now equals the new
first wizard page.

For more details see the specification:
http://specs.openoffice.org/chart/wizards/ChartWizard.odt

->Thomas, please verify.

This is a good project. Do you need any help with documentation or anything else?

Created attachment 44974 [details]
tcs_chart2_wizard

verified

It's OK for me with m213
-> I close this issue