Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Full Text Issue Listing |
Summary: | Users should have the option to have the cursor position remembered when opening a document. | ||
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Product: | Writer | Reporter: | peschtra <peschtra> |
Component: | open-import | Assignee: | eric.savary |
Status: | CLOSED FIXED | QA Contact: | issues@sw <issues> |
Severity: | Trivial | ||
Priority: | P3 | CC: | ansgar, issues, Mathias_Bauer, matthias.mueller-prove, mseidel, stx123, tommy-h |
Version: | 680m80 | Keywords: | oooqa |
Target Milestone: | --- | ||
Hardware: | All | ||
OS: | All | ||
URL: | http://specs.openoffice.org/appwide/open_doc_behavior/OpenDocumentBehavior.sxw | ||
Issue Type: | ENHANCEMENT | Latest Confirmation in: | --- |
Developer Difficulty: | --- |
Description
peschtra
2005-02-19 18:56:45 UTC
I think that remembering the cursor position is a *very* *useful* feature. The point is not that it is impossible to get by without that feature. If that was the standard, then we'd have almost no features. Most features we add are added because they *help* and are *useful*. Thanks to the OOoAuthors project, I regularly work with documentation, and I find this feature very useful. It allows me to go back to a document and continue where I left off. What am I supposed to do now? Write some kind of text that says "((daniel -- continue here))" ? Don't you see some problems with that approach? For one, it's an ugly kludge for something that used to be simple. Second, it's adding text and altering the pagination of a document for no good reason. Is it possible to do? Yes, this isn't the end of the world. But that's not the point. The point is that it's a useful feature. Cheers, Daniel Carrera. OpenOffice.org volunteer. Here's a suggestion: Can this feature be made into a setting? You can have it default to "off", but at least allow people to set it back to "on" at some point. Please? Cheers, Daniel I'll just copy my comment from issue 39486: Don't keep it. Revert the "feature" to the old behaviour. The user-scenario itself is a "joke". If Mary doesn't like the restored view, why doesn't she simply turn off "restore editing view"? Does Mary really add her writing to the top of the document? I doubt so. She will add her text somewhere in the middle or at the bottom, but only in rare cases at the top. If you think the behaviour has to be changed, then add the option "restore cursor position" and turn it off by default so that it can be turned on at least. Why do you impose annoying actions on the user (pressing the non-yet-existing shortcut?) There is already a shortcut to jump to the start of doc <ctrl>+<home> - why not have Mary press use the shortcut? You really should have listened to UFI :-( In response to Daniel's second comment, I would like to again point out that his suggestion is the old behavior. this really is a useful feature that i got used to - but it felt so natural that it was irritating to work with 1.9 builds. one of arguments to remove this setting - reduce options in gui. the problem is, as a result a feature is lost. it was functional, many people used it. this should be brought back to 2.0 (the sooner, the better - so that no fundamental changes are made that make it harder to reimplement) MRU->ES: you are named as QA-rep. in the spec. Please clarify with MMP, what to do with this. it's a duplicate of issue 39486. *** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 39486 *** closed um. duplicate ? again ? maybe my english is _that_ bad ? i believe this not a duplicate, because issue 39486 deals with a manual key sequence (which is a new feature), this one - with a feature that was available before but for some reason has been removed completely. i believe also that ongoing discussions in issues and mailing should have cleared the confusion about this functionality. could this be reconsidered, please ? I believe this is all the same. It's about the whole design of this feature: - should it come back as it was? - as a check box in the options? - what should be the default? - should there be a shortcut? - what should the shortcut do by default (restore view/top of doc)? Thus it's a duplicate. Else, it's better to concentrate the action on 1 task, but IZ is not the right place anyway to discuss features (discuss or users mailing lists) NO!!! This is NOT a duplicate of 39486! Specifically, 39486 is this (the summary) "Implement a shortcut to jump to the saved cursor position." This not what this issue is. In this issue, I am asking for the old behavior back, so that when I open the document it just starts were I left off. Read the conversation on that issue and the conversation in #41136 and you will see. I do NOT want just a shortcut, I want the 1.1.x behavior back. Reassigned @es comment #2 -- It is not one big issue. How many times have we been told, one issue per issue, not to try to lump the whole thing together. This is the difference, if you read the spec (in the url I provided) it says that v2 the only option is the doc to open at the top and that there will be a shortcut key to restore the last cursor position. In the snapshots, you can only open a doc at the top (as expected), but there is not shortcut key in the snapshots, hence #39486 is a DEFECT. Something that is supposed to be happening isn't. If we bundle everything into that one issue (the fact the we want the behavior reverted) and it is fixed, then the whole rest of the conversation is lost. That is why you file two issues when you have two issues. This issue, 43146, is a request for enhancement. We want a different feature we want the program changed. This feature could be marked as won't fix. So, if we lumped it with 39486 and it got marked won't fix, then the shortcut also wouldn't be added. Do you see the difference? *** Issue 43993 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** I agree dcarrera: A setting for this behaviour would be the best solution. Especially when editing big documents (I plan to write my diploma thesis with OOo Writer) I really would like that Writer opens at that position where I have worked at last! Please check if such an option could be targeted to OOo 2.01. I'm really annoyed of having lost this feature! Some of you may think this is not a big issue. But you must see this from the user's point of view Users save the document. And later they open it again to continue editing the document... So please implement an option to allow users to enable old behaviour... (Maybe an interesiting alternative would be to keep old behaviour and adding an option when saving to not store the cursor position...) (forget my last comment. this could be achieved by setting the cursor at the document's beginning before saving :-) ) I had the same problem (not saving cursor position) with OOo 1.0 and helped myself by painting red the last written word. So I could find it easier after re-opening the document and scrolling down. In OOo 1.1.2 the cursor position was saved and I was able to finish my dissertation (about 100 pages) without searching for the last position (because of lots of images and few memory scolling through the document took about 5 minutes!). If the new standard behaviour will not be changed back, I'll keep on using OOo 1.1.2 (or 1.1.4/5 perhaps) because this feature is essential for larger documents! I think there are more people using WRITER than IMPRESS or BASE, so the great advantages of OOo 2.0 could be drawn back by this. (and other things like the quickstart-"enhancement" #30853) *** Issue 44993 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** Would very much like to retain the option where the cursor moves to the location of the last edit when a file is opened. Like 1.1.0. For me, this would give OOO a significant edge over MS-Word. SBA: The old behavior "vanished" on purpose. See issue 20333 for details. In my opinion, this is about "Editors vs. readers (of Writer documents)": (1) The EDITOR prefers to keep on writing in the last position (2) The READER prefers to read a document from the start. I believe that "The BIG average" use of a Writer document is "More often read than edited". Thus it makes sense to have a "reader friendly" default. Reassigned to MMP. Glad to hear the functionality is being reconsidered. The default can be start at beginning. But useful to have an option to change it. There seem to be some users who feel passionate about this :-) I don't know anyone who uses MS-Word or OOO-Writer _primarily_ for reading docs. Email, html or pdf is the more usual method for reading, in my experience :-) sba, it makes sense to change the default if majority of users would prefer other choice than current default setting. in this case a feature has been completely removed, so (supposedly) minority that preferred old behaviour tries to make some noise and get it back in oo.org :) I agree with othr. In my experience OO.o is used for editing and presentation/reading is done via exported PDFs. This might be different in big companies, but why would I pass a document to s.o. which they can change if it's not for editing? I simply do not get it. If I as editor decide that my document should be read from the beginning (for example because I offer a basic Calc-Sheet for download on the internet), than I should have an extra option to set the "start reading from beginning" flag (in my opinion the best place would be in the file properties-dialogue). But I guess in 99 per cent of all cases the opener of a document is just continuing to edit a document of his own. *** Issue 48871 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** *** Issue 48430 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** pls. bring back this functionallity, that is of so much use for me in 1.1.x, back Stricking Ctrl-Home for someone needing to 'find' the start of a document, is much and much faster than looking for position 'x' So people using OOo as a powerfull editor etc, as I also do, will (in general of course) sure be pleased with the 1.1.x behaviour. Thank you very much! pls. bring this functionallity, that is of so much use for me in 1.1.x, back Stricking Ctrl-Home for someone needing to 'find' the start of a document, is much and much faster than looking for position 'x' So people using OOo as a powerfull editor etc, as I also do, will (in general of course) sure be pleased with the 1.1.x behaviour. Thank you very much! To my opinion the bias towards the reader, vs. the writer, is wrong. Indeed, chances are that there are a lot more readers than wirters of a document. But, mostly, readers will read the document only once on the screen, and from my experience readers tend to print the document rather than read it on the screen at all, especially with larger documents - for which the whole issue is the most important. Writers and editors, however, handle the document many, many more times. So the disadvantage for writer/editor of the cursor not being positioned on the last position is much greater than the disadvantage for the reader to have to jump to the top of the doc. So, my votes are for the old behaviour. Cheers, jehojakim I would like to keep the possability to get to the latest position/mutation by opening a document in OOo writer. The reason is that I usely write very long documents that I mostely work on for months. Therefor it is for me essential to keep that possability also in OpenOffice.org 2 and further. I would appreciate it iw you would put this function in OpenOffice.org 2 and further. Thank you. With kind regards, Philip Pasveer retarget to OOo 2.0.1 duplicate to i33307 *** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 33307 *** closed; to be followed up in i33307 hmmm... 33307 is about a new shortcut... Better than nothing, but not quite the same as this issue which is about something more closely resembling a former functionality. I note that we already have a shortcut to return to the beginning of the document :-) Perhaps I should ask: If you are going to store the last-save position (ie even with 33307), what is the problem with having an option to do this automatically? Is it a big memory or architecture problem? erm. we already had this issue closed as duplicate to issue about a shortcut (and this is not about a shortcut). i don't think it's worth to reiterate, comments to this issue since Mon Feb 21 08:11:23 -0700 2005 reflect opinions well enough. it seems that this issue will get burried beneath issues about adding some shortcut, not resolved the way users want it - by getting back the removed functionality. f this is not the case, i would appreciate more verbal comments why this is considered a dupe and closed - and what is the current view regarding position restoring. The best solution would be a) optimal view with no shortcuts for reader (someone who opens a document for the first time) and author (someome who has opened and edited the document quite recently.) b) no shortcuts c) no additional option Point a) is the hard part -- to detect the context under what a document is opened. As long as we don't have a feasable solution for this I recommend to treat the readers more politeley than the authors. Point b) is the price that authors have to pay for that. Point c) imposes a solution for power-users that is totally out of sight for the average. If I understand the specs-doc correct, the point is: - avarage user is confused about starting in the middle of a doc; - power-user has no problem using Shft-F5 to return to latest cursor position. I can happily live with that. Furthermore the specs-doc says something about an option to make default restorage of cursor position (& view) posible. But I couldn't get the clue on whats proposed to do with that idea. The option "Editing view" in OOo1.1x (Tools>Options>OpenOffice.org>View) was an all or nothing option. All modules open the document on the first page or all modules open the documents on the last edited page. This was not good. Section 6.6. says that this options should be removed. I suppose this has to wait until OOoLater. Until then this option has no effect on Writer and Impress. But still on Calc. and what's wrong with - option to choose wether automatically restore editing position; - shortcut key for those who want restoring only ocasionally. in this scenario everybody is happy - this option would be turned off by default and only those who want this functionality would enable it. it's been argued in this issue a lot that most people don't read long documents onscreen, they print them out; usually creating/editing the document requires more work and iterations of opening/closing than just reading it; that there already is a shortcut to go to the beginning of the document (and most people already know what ctrl+home would do). it feels like these arguments are just ignored without even an attempt to disprove them. i feel so disappointed that i would have tried to see into this myself already - if only i'd knew how to code. as i do not, i can only try to reasonably justify my view. and i really believe that oo.org will lose by removing this functionality. This might work as an interims solution. But from my point of view it is too much effort for 2.0.1. We have to treat different modules differently, and sometimes an author becomes a reader and vice versa. A general option does not address this issue. I like to see a shortcut as specified for 2.01 and hopefully an elaborate feature for OOo 3. set parent As far as I'm aware, not mentioned before, is the great advantage for using templates, when the cursor is at the past position on opening a document. Imagine: you save the template with the cursor is on the position where the user has to start with typing .. the cursor is just there when a new doc is created from that template. That Ãs handy! Can this be achieved in/with 33307?? As far as I expect: yes. But I doupt that all template users know the shortcut to jump to the saved position. So we have a bad solution for your scenario. Do you know actual users/companies who rely on this behavior? Long time ago, when I worked on automating corporate styles in MsO, we had a bookmark and a piece of code to start at the start position ;-) Not difficult to implement in OOo, however for the few projects we did until now, there just was no need to do it, because of the default behaviour. Furthermore, that only works when combining templates and macro code. For many relative easy works, where no macro´s are used, it's just fine when the cursor is there. "This might work as an interims solution. ... A general option does not address this issue." i would like to restore editing position in all kinds of documents. actually, the fuss is not about adding the option, it's about removing of functional option and not providing that envisioned improvement where office suite would find out wether person wants to read the document or write at the last position. why not leave this option until optimal solution is developed ? i don't want to go into bad analogies land, but it's like removing a handbrake because sometimes people can use it while driving and that migh cause undesirable effects. software should help users in their work. usually i have to work with several documents. it is very handy if i have the latest text just after opening the document, it helps me to restore my ideas and get on with the work itself. sometimes i even don't remember that i have left a sentence in the middle of the document unfinished - and only when i have it in front of my when opening i remember that there is something unfinished. so, shortcut key is not sufficient for my workflow, where i depend on software to remind me where i left my work. and why not ? this way i can concentrate on other things immediately instead of trying to remember which was the sentence that was unfinished in this 200 page document. now there is no replacement for this feature. removing functionality and hoping that something a lot better will be implemented usually results in no improvement or it comes after several years. if there is a need to restructure this feature, shouldn't it be done so that it does not disrupt existing workflows ? in that case improvements would be warmly greeted. It's senseful to reduce the amount of Issues by marking them as duplicates and closing them. But in this case you do know the difference between this issue and issue 33307: We want to keep the opening behaviour of OOo 1.x (the checkbox may be checked off as standard), a shortcut would be a workaround - if it would work by now! So it is *not* a duplicate. If you would have closed it with the real reason, there would be much less complaint (probably we would have to open a new issue as "feature request"). In my eyes the real reason is something like that (it's just a suggestion, but I'ld like to know if I did understand you): 1) There have been complaints about the old opening behaviour by readers of writer-documents (ACK) 2) Turning off the checkbox as standard solution disables the feature in calc-, impress- and base-documents as well. The reader of the writer-document wants to open the other document types where he has left them. (Otherwise he wouldn't have a problem with unchecking the option - I think, he would open the other documents at the beginning without many complaints) 3) People writing longer documents know better than the "readers" how to move to the point where they want to start. So it's more senseful to ask them to use a shortcut than the others. (ACK) 4) The implementation of the shortcut has been too complex to include in 2.0 (refer to #33307), but the "readers" must have their optimal behaviour (starting writer documents at the start, others at other positions) in 2.0. (Do you worry about loosing new users? - the power-users wouldn't go to MSO anyway!) Closing the issue with these reasons could be understood (without agreeing to), but closing as duplicate is wrong IMHO. Just two more points to discuss: 1) The point of starting template-based documents is a new one. Here "simple" standard-user could have an advantage of the old behaviour, but by now we don't know how often it is used. 2) While it is clear, that the shortcut can't be implemented in 2.0 final, it should be the better compromise to go back to the old behaviour with turning off the checkbox as standard. I assume that the "simple" standard-reader doesn't mention the problem that calc-, impress- and base-documents (if he uses them at all) open at the beginning. For all the people using writer with longer documents there must be a possibility to begin where they stopped at the last session (without bookmarking every time before saving...) I don't see why the standard-reader can't open all documents at the beginning - or decide to open all (including writer) at the last edited position and check the option. Who is able to check an option is able to uncheck it as well (or use an *existing* shortcut for temporary movement to the beginning). Perhaps there is a reason I don't have in mind - please let me know! Bernhard Hi gang! so many good arguments - I'd like to tune in and sing the song of the good old times. Cut. A general option for "advanced users" is not sufficient - IMO. Every user is reader and of received documents and editor of her own. Roles of reading and editing change and we cannot distinguish between the situations. Currently the spec defines a new behavior that was implemented partly due to engineering constraints. The last view position is saved in OOo2. OOo2.0.1 will add the shortcut to jump to that position. i33307 is the task to implement this postponed aspect of the spec. To open the first page for Writer & Impress plus a shortcut is a better solution for the majority of use cases. The behavior in OOo 1.1x was half right and half wrong. With the option "Restore Editing views" it was half wrong and half right. If this task i43146 is about to get the 1.1 bahavior back then you do not have my support. I propose to continue as specified and to develop ideas how we can better support the editing use case for OOo3. I cannot describe it better than richlv did. Software should support the work of the user. I, as user experience engineer, have to consider all styles of working with OOo. And that includes authors and users sharing documents. In this case I fight a little bit more for the readers. Suggestion: i43146 is no longer a dup of i33307 Target would be OOoLater We discuss what this task is about. Hi mmp, *
you wrote:
> Suggestion:
> i43146 is no longer a dup of i33307
> Target would be OOoLater
> We discuss what this task is about.
For me, thats all ok. But what would you think of re-opening? ;-)
To your arguments:
There is nobody longing for the "good old times"!
The point was to disable the feature *before* we have a sufficient workaround.
Not having a possibility at all is IMHO the reason why so many people voted for
this issue, a shortcut is not the same - but it's better than nothing.
As a temporary solution I can agree to the shortcut, in the long term there
should be a document-dependent behaviour:
a) standard: doc is opened at the first page
b) if the user wants to restart at the last position he has to to two things:
- mark a specific option (when *I* reopen this doc, it shall start at last
position)
- make sure that the user data is used for the document properties
the program has to save a new option in the properties to find out, if the
current user ha marked the re-opening option.
c) if the user wants the doc to open at a special position every time it is
opened by any user, it shold have an option "reopen at bookmark" (should be
usable for templates as well)
It's just an idea - not finally thought through, but perhaps a starting point.
Cheers,
Bernhard
cornouws touched on another example of why the current (1.1) functionality is important. At OOoAuthors we have a template for the user guide. The first page is taken up by the chapter cover. The second contains the license information, acknowledgements, etc. So we have to put the instructions on the third page. These instructions tell the contributor what to do before starting the chapter. The volunteer has to edit some fields, and must be aware of some OOo bugs and work around them. We also provide basic writing information and links. We save the file so that the first thing you see is the instructions. This simple choice has decreased confusion among volunteers to almost zero. I honestly think that the old behaviour was better. And that the proposed "solutions" are worse than what this issue says. Daniel. reopen issue. A few comments: > To open the first page for Writer & Impress plus a shortcut is a better solution > for the majority of use cases. I strongly disagree. You write that everyonw is both reader and editor. True. But the majority of the users are editors more often than readers. And for the readers-case there is already an easy shortcut: <ctrl>+<home>. In the unlikely case that the users is mainly a reader, there's the option [ ] restire editing view. The all-or-nothing approach is not wrong for the reader. If he doesn't want the cursor-posistion, he doesn't want the zoom-level and other related things. > If this task i43146 is about to get the 1.1 bahavior back then you do not have > my support. The change you did doesn't have the support of many users. A dilemma. But be assured: This one is not about the old behavioiur, it is about having the possibility to open documents with remembered cursor-posistion by default. Whether you introduce another option [x] always restore editing position or do it differently is of no interest. In any case: This one is not a duplicate. If you insist on your new design, then close this one as wontfix (and p*** of lot of users)... The "optimal" solution would be: * OOo is able to read the user's mind and act accordingly. This is not possible. It is far easier to have the readers either uncheck the existing option or have them press a shortcut than doing it the other way round. > I cannot describe it better than richlv did. Well, richlv want OOo to jump to the saved cursor position on load. "... Software should support the work of the user. I, as user experience engineer, have to consider all styles of working with OOo. And that includes authors and users sharing documents. ..." I think, mmp is wrong with his opinion about the "old" feature. It is extremely helpful for authors. Writer is a "word processor" (text processor) to write (long) text documents, not to read them. Normal users read texts when they are printed (or exported to pdf). It is a good behaviour, not to distribute documents, which can contain macros or other active content. "Software should support the work of the user" and absolutely most work with writer is to write documents! And this is best done with the old feature! I work with Writer, FrameMaker and Word and I prefer Writer because of this "old" feature, which the other software does not have. Please restore it! Another consideration: what happens when someone doesn't know the shortcuts? You can't expect everyone to know the shortcuts, or even most people. Shortcuts are inherently hard to remember, and even harder to find out (how do you expect someone to learn about the Shift+F5 shortcut, or even Ctrl+Home?). If you don't know shortcuts, going to the beginning of the document is really easy. Just grab the scroll bar and move it all the way up. On the other hand, what if you want to work where you left off? For even a short 10-page document it can be very frustrating. For a larger document, or a document where you're not even sure if you were editing that document or not. So, changing the behaviour in a way that makes life very difficult for the editor and only marginally better for the reader seems like very bad usability design to me. Add to that, the fact that the editor spends more time on the document tan the reader. And when the editor is finished, and wants to send the document to the readers, he can just go to the first page and re-save. That's what I currently do with OOo 1.1. Cheers, Daniel. Furthermore: if I do send a document to others in an editable form, and do not convert it to PrivateOpenXML (.doc), I can be so wise to place the cursor in top, before saving. I filed this issue a while ago, and it is so clear to me that I don't understand some people opposition to it. Question to mmp: Who is disadvantaged by the 1.1.x behavior? The scenario provided (in the spec) is laughable. I have already elaborated on this, so I won't repeat myself. I am big fan of the arguments along the lines of OOo is not a format intended for reading documents. Writer is text editor. There a readers for documents out there. PDF is a good format, ebooks I guess work, but Writer is not really intended for reading, it is for editing. I think Daniel's point is also very good. Going to the top of a document sans shortcut is SUBSTANTIALLY easier than finding where you left off. I am not a big fan of the idea of making the feature document dependent. I think it is interesting, but I don't want to have to remember everytime I make a document to check the box. I suppose if I could edit my default template to have that box checked, I would survive. :) Mostly, I would like to have someone give me a real circumstance where the 1.1.x behavior is harmful to productivity. I can give (and others have given you) several examples of where the 2.0 behavior, even with a shortcut, hurts productivity. The only way I would say we could improve upon 1.1.x is to clarify the checkbox? I mean, why is this feature okay for Calc and not Writer? Sorry, I am rambling, but it is just so clear to me that this is a good feature, something that propels OOo over MSO and a feature that will require me to keep a copy of 1.1.4 on my computer for my editing work until 2.0 has an acceptable feature. Hi gang, here's what I propose for OOo 2.01 a) We will implement the shortcut Shift-F5 as specified. (i33307) b) IF author of the Writer document and current user of OOo (Options>OOo>User Data>FirstName+LastName) are the same THEN open the document at the recently used position. IF EITHER author of the Writer document is not set OR the current user data is not set THEN open the document at the first page. Shift-F5 can be used anyway. Please let me know what you think. Matthias Hi Matthias, Sounds good to me. A handy and natural distinction between user and reader. And uhh, is there any possibility that our life in between 2.0 & 2.01 is made easy as well :S At least with Shift-F5? sounds reasonable, though maybe we should compare also 'modified' field with current user information ? for example, if i receive a file to work on, resave it, i would like to remember position for it (as i have become an editor now), but the only place my information is (as far as i can see) - in 'modified' field. Hello Matthias, I like the idea, it's a clever solution. Though I like richlv's suggestion even better. It seems to do something closer to what you intended. But in any event, if you use the Author field as you suggested I'll be very happy. If you use the last-modified field as richlv suggested I'll be happier yet. Thanks! Cheeers, Daniel. I think that is a fair compromise. I would still like to see the option implemented in the future to go back to the world of 1.1.x. Should we open a new issue for 3.0 once this one is resolved? Author field and last modified fields are good ideas, I think, plus shift F5 (same as MS-Word). This would keep me happy. Matthias, that sounds like a nice idea. I'm still thinking how that fits to other use cases where the "old" feature came in handy: (1) Creating documents from a template where editing in the new document always should start at the same position. (2) A workflow where a document is passed between users that consecutively add their contributions. Of course the shortcut would at least enable them to do so but it still looks a bit tedious to me. I'm still wondering wether we should work on the document side. Documents can leave the application in different ways: they can be sent out by email, they can be saved or copied. At least the first use case can easily be handled by not providing restore information at all when we create the copy that is sent by email (we always create a copy for various reasons), but we can also provide additional meta data that tells OOo not to use existing information. The workflows I described wouldn't profit from Matthias' suggestion, but we could enable them by providing a document setting (not a global one as in OOo1.x) that tells OOo "always restore cursor position automatically", at least if the document is not opened read-only. I admit that this is not thought to the end, but I wanted to point out that there still could be room for improvement. Hello Matthias, * comparing author and users data is a good idea, but as richlv suggested "modified" should be taken into account. In my eyes the author and all editors (listed in "modified") should be compared to the users data to move the cursor to the last saved position. If a former editor wants to start at the beginning, he does know the shortcut <CTRL><HOME> - in the most cases the automatism would work quite well. Just one thing to mention: If I'm not wrong, the standard behavior is to set "document modified" status when a doc is printed (Options - OOo - General). I have the checkbox unchecked, but I think I dit it manually a lot of time ago. Perhaps this should be standard - just to avoid confusing Mary. For mba's reflections there should be a solution (at least in a later version). His first point (opening template based documents) seems to be quite important for some users. After you (mmp) asked for users of that feature I posted the question on the german users-list and got answers from people using it in everydays work: One told about templates with input fields where it is convenient to start the free text at the right position after filling the input fields. (http://de.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=33143) Someone else mentioned 8 templates he and his staff uses every day. Others just agreed to the necessity of that feature. Perhaps there could be a checkbox in the "save templates"-dialogue (File - Templates - Save) you have to check to open new documents at the cursor position. For mba's second example (workflow with differnt editors of one document) I don't have a solution - if there will not be the document depending feature mba mentions, <SHIFT><F5> must be used (or a simple macro striking this shortcut on opening the document). Bernhard bedipp's survey has confirmed the importance of a document properties setting for "move to last edit position" for templates. However mba's idea doesn't apply only to documents saved as templates. I once worked as quality manager for a consulting firm with a couple of hundred staff. Many of our QA docs opened several pages into the document (ie after the table of contents and introductory sections). Another example is reports: the Executive Summary/TOC/Introduction (ie the first page of really useful information) is often preceeded by a title page and a revision control page. A document setting to open at an author-defind location could be useful in that situation, too, especially as we move more deeply into the electronic age (although I have noted above that, in my experience, most documents are circulated as pdf - Acrobat's document-specific setting to automatically display the bookmark pane is useful in that regard). I start to have fond feelings for this thread! Anyway. Thanks for the hint to test for the "modifying author" first. This is absolutely necessary. Concering the template positioning, I suggest that a macro will do the job much more reliable than the likeley default setting in OOo 1.1. This was common agreement between me and the user experience design team. Sure, it is a trade-off, but its all I can offer for OOo 2.01. BTW We have engineering commitment for i33307, i43146, i50902. The spec will be updated before implementation begins. 51 votes and a vivid discussion. This will be done for OOo 2.0. I'll update the spec during the next 2 business days spec draft done - new sections are highlighted in bright yellow. I am just so very happy. I go around singing the praises of OOo to my friends, and they don't understand why they should switch when they already have MS Office, but this is a reason. The people have a voice. It is a beautiful thing. Thanks Matthias for your hard work and compromise. It's great *** Issue 51199 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** Good news that it made it finally into 2.0. Thanks. Thanks to Mathias (mmp) for changing the target milestone - it is much better than any workaround... Thanks to all of you con-discussants for convincing him of the exigence for that feature. That's how community works! Hi Matthias, all, My compliments as well for the discussion and the current outcome. Furthermore I'll try to think about the situation regarding positioning in tempates (and others). Using a macro is not a problem in corporate style-environments. But it is an extra effort in other situations. I do not intend to come with suggestions shortly. And above all I think the solution as presented now is very OK for this moment. spec is final - please implement section 6.2 of the spec. Fixed in cws os65 in sw/source/ui/uiview/view.cxx * opens beer. any ideas which master build might get this cws integrated so that we can extensively test it ? ;) *** Issue 51578 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** cws os65 can be found on cws03 re-open issue and reassign to es@openoffice.org reassign to es@openoffice.org reset resolution to FIXED ES: verivied in cws os65. Last Author reopens -> jumps to cursor position New User opens -> at start of document. *** Issue 51770 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** Ok in build src680m117 *** Issue 52219 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** *** Issue 47364 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** Hi all, XP & OOo 1.9.125 Dutch - I take a blanc doc - Create an ott from that - Create an odt from that template - Ad some text - Notice that File|Props lists my name at 'made at', same as in Tools|Options|General|Userdata - Save the doc - Re-open it - But no cursor at the last position :-( - Sft-F5 doesn't have any effect either (which is correct, target is 2.0.1) * What am I doing wrong? * The Tools|Options|OOo|View|Restore is checked (however, according to specs, is of no use and will be removed later) * Meta XML shows <office:document-meta xmlns:office="urn:oasis:names:tc:opendocument:xmlns:office:1.0" so it should be the proper new fileformat. * What file /node / prop is the position to be found? Oeps, I just test an English/US version of OOo. There it does work. So it is an translation-issue. Does it make sense if I look in one of the XML-files? Thanks, Cor Is it possible that you don't have entered your name into the user data? AFAIK the cursor restore is bound to the equality of user names from last editor and the person that opens the document. I assume that in case both are empty it is assumed that they are not the same person. if both user information & owner/last editor of the document are empty, they are not considered the same. though if it works ok in english version, somebody with corresponding localised version should test it. I'm using 1.9.125 German version and there it works as expected. I make a change, save the document and close it, reopen it and the cursor is at the place where I made the last change. *** Issue 62802 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. *** The Restore Editing View function is not working. (version 4.1.13) After reopening an edited document, the cursor should be at the last place where editing occurred. This worked well until yesterday. Now, all documents open on the front page. The shortcut Shift+F5 has also failed. It should move the cursor to the last edited point. I checked that relevant keys are in place. For example, Tools/customise/shortcut keys/Shift+F5 Also under Function/category/ function/ Shift+F5 indicates it should Restore Editing View. Any suggestions? Hi, This is not for user support. Better ask on our forum: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Did you look if you have a username entered at "Tools - Options - OpenOffice - User Data"? |