Issue 63875

Never saw that with "2.0.2  German version WIN XP: [680m5(Build9011)]"

@bizy 
definitively only a writer problem, or can you also reproduce that problem with
other OOo components?

Save as and export also fails?

'unable to write' is the error message you get?

Other file types in the same directory as you document (for example: image with
IrfranView) can be saved without any problems while OOo writer fails?

I do not understand your comment " ... especially because the document becomes
longer and longer...", pls. explain!

This is what I got:  "Fout bij opslaan van document (...).odt:
Probleem bij schrijven.
Fout bij schrijven van bestand."

This means:  "Error when saving document (...).odt:
Error when 'writing'.
Error when 'writing down' document."

As far as I know, it only happens in Writer, yes (but I'm not using the other
Open Office programs for the moment).  And:  it doesn't happen with other
programs (Dreamweaver, Acrobat Reader,...).

"Especially because the document becomes larger...":  that doesn't matter as
such!  It simple means that it takes more time to copy and paste as the document
volume increases because I'm working on it!

Good luck!

PS:  Don't you think this needs more priority?
Or do you think this might be a problem of my computer?  I don't know:  512 Mb
Ram, Pentium 4... - it shouldn't...

Reassigned to ES.

It happens again and again...
(even after an hour of non-activity)

I'll try to reinstall... (one never knows)

Reinstalled (Dutch, 2.02).

Same problem!!

Please attach a sample document.

Closed issue due to reporter's inactivity

How do you mean?  INVALID???

I have a new computer now (Shuttle SN25P, XP SP2, AMD dual core) and the problem
remains the same!  When I leave a document opened for a longer time (an hour, a
day...), and I add new content:  'Unable to save' - I have to copy the content
into a new document, and the added data in the original one are lost.

I guess there is a problem there, no?

This issue has been closed as invalid due to inactivity because you didn't
attach the document required to reproduce the problem.
So, once again: please attach a sample document.

Also try to use 2.0.3 now.

It doesn't make sense to 'attach' a document - sorry, I didn't reply on that.
(I'm nog gonna publish personal documents!)
And it happens over and over again, not with one document in particular:  so,
make a document (*.odt or *.doc), type some words, leave it opened during f.i.
one day, type some words again... and you won't be able to save that...
(I have that same experience on different computers now, so why would it only be
me?)

What else can I say?  I mentioned the Oo version, the fault message, the
computers, operating system...

As far as I know, version 2.0.3 hasn't a Dutch version yet, so for the moment I
don't upgrade.

there you can find a nl version for 2.0.3

http://oootranslation.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/2.0.3rc7/

Okay, thanks...  (the website was a little bit unclear about getting a version
in a different language)
I installed it a few hours ago.  Up so far:  no problems (happily).  But let's
wait a couple of days, and see...

Well, we don't have to wait a couple of days...
Same problem...  
(Maybe, I must add:  after creating a second document, leaving that 'opened'
also...)
I'll try to post an image of the fault message (Dutch, 'translated' in former
message)...

Created attachment 37846 [details]
this is the fault message I got...

@bizy: 
Do you use OOo file dialogue or WIN file dialogue?

Ok, so let's try to find out what's wrong there...

1. Rainer's question: do you use the OOo dialog or the Windows dialog to save
your document?
2. Please try to see if it alos happens with Calc and Draw (let such document
open a whole day and try to save it)
3. Look if your temp directory is not full when it happens.
4. Where do you save exactly (locally? remote? Doesn't matter where?)?
5. Do you run a lot of applications when it happens (have a look at your system
monitor)?

Both (but with *.odt for the moment) - it doesn't matter.

Additional questions:
- applications opened:  this changes, sometimes a lot, sometimes no other, but
f.i.:  I'm checking my mail (Thunderbird), working on a website (Dreamweaver),
opening Acrobat Reader, making a backup (Syncback), listening music (JetAudio),
surfing (Firefox)... - but my computer has no problem at all with this (less
then 10% CPU)!!  
- I save on a second hard disk (internal)(directly) (and on a second partition
of the 'system hard disk' (backup) and on a stick (backup), but that is no problem)
- okay, I'll do some testing with the other programs, but gimme some time, coz I
got a lot to do for the moment...

thanks, 
and hear you soon again... 

Alas:  up so far no problem with Database or Impress, but yes:  with Draw and
Calc... same problem...
(Made all those 'test documents' at the same time...)

Can no one reproduce the same problem???

Created attachment 37877 [details]
unable to save - Draw

Created attachment 37878 [details]
Unable to save - Calc

Created attachment 37879 [details]
Unable to save - Impress

Created attachment 37880 [details]
Unable to save - Odt

Hi bizy,
no idea what we can learn from your images :-/
We need a "real" OOo document that caused the write error on your PC so that we
can check whether there is someting special with those documents that causes the
problem.

Apparently no, nobody but you can reproduce this problem.
That's why we asked you the questions above, so please be kind to answer
questions 1) and 3).
Screenshots of error messages don't help to reproduce the issue.

Now it's definitively a framework issue. 

High,

Please, give me an EXACT description of what you want.  I don't have the time
now to go into this deeply.  Again:  I'm not a specialist (and I won't become one).
So:  how and where do I get that document that you want me to send?
What else do you want to know - apart from what I have already mentioned?

Unhappily, the problem persists, and it's very annoying (imagine working with 3
documents at a time, having to copy them in a new document, renaming,
resaving... over and over again...).

Thanks for your help,
B.

Question 1:  I don't know what you mean.  I just use the short cut:  Ctrl+S or
Bestand/Opslaan or Bestand/Opslaan als (File/Save or Save as).

Question 3:  My temp folder is definitely not full - I clean my computer nearly
every day (Disk Cleaner).

In the mean time:  the problem persists, even gets worse (having to create a new
document after having created a new one and so on...)

Greetz,
B.

Created attachment 37987 [details]
Document that gave this fault message...

Created attachment 37988 [details]
Document that gave this fault message... - this time with right MIME

Created attachment 37989 [details]
Document that gave this fault message...

Created attachment 37990 [details]
Document that gave this fault message...

Created attachment 37991 [details]
Document that gave this fault message...

Hello you unknown geniuses out there,

I guess I found something out.
The use of Disk Cleaner:  that really makes the difference (version 1.5.7 - now
you all must be able to reproduce the 'problem', I think).
There are some options - see screenshot (I still don't know exactly which one) -
and if I neglect them, the problem...
...is over?!

So?

Greetz,
Bizy.

Created attachment 37992 [details]
Screenshot of Disk Cleaner (1.5.7) that causes the problem (?)

@bizy: 
Pls. contact "Disk Cleaner" support with reference to this IZ-page; Disk cleaner
support should contact us.

Hi,

i reproduced this bug. There's no need to wait a long time for the bug to occur:

1) Create a new document with some random contents
2) Save the file somewhere
3) Find your temporary directory and delete the subdirectory used by OO (it's a
subdirectory called c:\temp\Username\svg45.tmp on my computer). If your system
doesn't allow to delete the whole subdirectory, you can try deleting its files
(e.g. svg64.tmp).
4) change the document and try to save it
   --> Error message

The error message says: 
 "Fehler beim Speichern des Dokumentes test.odt:
  Schreibproblem.
  Fehler beim Schreiben der Datei."
Which means
 "Error saving test.odt:
  Problems writing the file.
  Error writing the file."
Which is not a very helpful error message.

I tested the bug with writer and draw. I suppose that it also occurs with other
OO components.

I hope that this is more helpful to you
buntmetall

Hi,

Same issue here with 2.0.4 on XP. There seems to be a whole bunch of folks
recently (!) experiencing this issue and discussing it in the forum:

http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=40883

Unless I'm mistaken and we are talking about a different bug here.

I can't give you the document I'm having trouble with right now since it
contains proprietary information, but my symptoms match the general description
in the forum. 

Thanks,
David

*** Issue 63875 has been confirmed by votes. ***

I see this issue on a recurring basis with Windows 2000 sp4 and OpenOffice.org
2.0.3 and 2.0.4 (NOT installed over 1.x).  As a test, when I got this message
last night I left the document open in OOo and found the file through Windows
Explorer -- I was allowed to change the filename indicating that OOo's link to
the file had been lost.

Using NTFS as my file system.  Win2K's built-in disk check reveals no filesystem
problems.  The directory in question is on a local disk.  The problem exists
regardless of settings for AutoSave and Always Save Backup (ie. it occurs even
when these settings are disabled).  However, as previously noted, copying and
pasting into a new document and saving to the original filename works fine but
is bothersome and hurts OOo's reputation as a viable product for the mass market.

The lost link to the file happens *after* the fact. It is a result of the
inability to save.

For me it definitely looks as if the only cause for the bug we have found so far
is "cleaning" the temp folder while OOo is running. Unfortunately there is no
fix for that so all we can say here is: don't do it!

Until no other potential root cause is found we can't do anything here.

As I said we are not able to fix that problem (as it is caused by an external
program).
But we can give a better error message so that users immediately get to know
*why* they can't save. 

Mikhail, we need a new exception and a new interaction (error message).

The problem currently is that OOo uses different temporary files for each
document, embedded document and etc. So there is no way to predict the number of
temporary files, because it is scenario dependent. Thus, to save system
resources, only currently necessary temporary files stay opened, when a
temporary file is not used it is closed and opened later on demand. So most of
the temporary files stay closed and can be removed.

There are plans to reimplement the temporary files handling so that only one
file that has internally a kind of FileSystem is used. In this case the file
could stay opened for the whole time and it would be impossible to remove it. If
the reimplementation will be done for OOo2.3 there is no need to introduce the
special error handling.

Neither error message nor the reimplementing of the temporary file handling will
happen for 2.3. Changing the target.

  I know of a system where this error happens frequently (maybe once
every couple of hours of use).  It is on a new computer with freshly
installed (no previous versions of):
     OpenOffice.org 2.2.1
     Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2
Given that I have not encountered this error in extensive use of
OpenOffice under Linux and Windows 2000, I was skeptical and then
shocked to see such a basic function fail.  But there is no comfort
in seeing that others have reported this error more than a year ago,
and the situation remains unchanged.

  While it is not my computer where this error is now showing, it
is only a half-hour drive away for me.  If I smile and ask nicely, 
I may be able to either:
  - collect more debugging info if that is needed (is the keyword
    needmoreinfo still current for this issue?), or
  - try out a proposed fix
soon, before the owners of that computer lose all patience with
OpenOffice and remove it from that system and their life.

  What can I do to help?

  Is the reimplementation of the usage of temporary files (described
in Wed Mar 21 11:33:26 +0000 2007 comment above) underway, and
included in 2.3 ?
    http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease23
Hmm, looks like the "Target milestone" just was changed to OOo 2.4,
which may appear in Feb 2008.  What can I do to reverse this
procrastination?

  It seems counterproductive to be in such a rush to pretend this
problem does not exist, e.g.:
    http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=79205

  If there is a sound understanding that this bug is only triggered by
external programs running and removing / cleaning / erasing files,
at a minimum we should collect the names of such programs.  Then
we should publish this list in a Help file that is linked from the
dialog box (instead of the current messagebox) presented when this
error occurs, e.g.:

   [x icon in red ball] Error saving the document whatever.odt
   Write Error.
   Error writing file.
   OK  Help

Actually, since no one feels OK or wishes to agree when this happens
to them, maybe the list of naughty programs to reconfigure should be
shown IN THIS messagebox, rather than hidden behind a Help button.
Then by the time the hapless user read down to the OK button, they
would have been presented with a useful clue.

p.s.  Speculation, not fact, follows.  One of the very few programs
running on this system when this error occurs is "ca Internet Security
Suite", i.e.:
    CA Anti-Spam
    CA Anti-Spyware
    CA Anti-Virus
    CA Personal Firewall
    CA Security Center
When I am next near this computer, I will try disabling these
processes, and see if the OpenOffice errors cease.  Would you 
like a "secure" computer, or one where OOo works?  Ouch.

oofixit: thanks for your offer but at the moment it looks that we found the
culprit - any program cleaning the temporary files will cause it. Fortunately
OOo allows to change the location of its temporary files (it's in
"Tools-Options-Paths") and so people that are hit by the problem without knowing
how to fix it (e.g. as bizy was able to fix it in his "DiskCleaner"
configuration) can change the OOo configuration. 

That should be enough for the time being.

Regarding the comment from mba that the workaround is sufficient, I would like
to point out something from the forum threads (and my experience): this happens
on ALL operating systems.  I am running Linux (Ubuntu) and have nothing running
that could be sweeping my temporary files.  This is not just a Windows issue
that can be avoided by turning off external tools.  I've only recently started
encountering this problem, and only with very large files (the primary culprit
is a Calc file with ~150 charts and 22 very full sheets).  Based on timing, I
believe it has something to do with attempting to save the file when autosave is
still working.  Could we please have a little more feedback on when this MAJOR
issue is actually going to be addressed, since it apparently isn't going to be
in 2.3?

Just a guess. OOo might simply exhaust OS file handles limit.

Please note, that files opened by OOo are "locked" for writing (can only be
read), but files that "cannot be saved" aren't locked - OOo lost file handle?

Also, regarding previous comment by tweedledee. OOo use temporary files a *LOT*
See Issue 70544, OOo can create over 17000 temp files!

File handles limit might not be the source of the problem.
There is a sequence to reproduce the problem with high "success" rate:
- open Calc document from Samba share
- Delete "all" from any empty cell
- Save file

Created attachment 50563 [details]
testcase

Well, I finally managed to create a 100% working (faulty?) testcase.
OOo 2.3.1, Windows XP SP2, testcase on local HDD, NTFS
- start new Calc instance (do not use QuickStarter!)
- open testcase
- delete "all" from empty cell (I use G38, where cursor stays after open)
- save file
Get "unable to save" error with almost 100% rate.

I hope this will give a lead to source of this bad dataloss bug.

pmike, thanks for helping. Unfortunately I couldn't reproduce the error with
your testcase (OOO2.3.1, WinXP SP2, testcase in "MyDocuments", NTFS).

From the description of the submitter I still concur that this is the "cleaning
temporary files" problem. OOo creates a lot of temporary files but (as you
correctly pointed out) keeping them open and locked would put OOo on risk to run
out of file handles, at least on system with concurrent users. Instead of this
OOo remembers the file names of its temporary files and reopens them on demand.
If a cleanup tool meanwhile has removed them OOo is at a loss. As it is possible
to detect this error we will add a more specific error message in this case.

"Unable to write" is a very general message and can have many different root
causes. The case you have found surely is something different than the problem
of the submitter as his problem seem to be related to using OOo for a longer
time before the problem occured.

Neither a new temporary file handling nor the new error string can be integrated
into OOo2.4. Thus I change the target.

Please do not mix this bug with other reasons, that lead to impossibility to
store a document. For example the issue 73979.

This bug is only about impossibility to write because the temporary files were
removed. I have changed the summary accordingly.

.

Not enough resources - moving to 3.x

Changing the Platform since the Mac is also strongly affected by the problem.
The temporary files there are cleaned by the system periodically, that causes
similar problems. I see no real solution for the problem except the
implementation mentioned in issue 46454.

I don't understand, why a missing temp file makes it impossible to "save" the doc to the existing file or to 
"save as" to a new one, while it is possible to copy all the content in to a new doc. So all nessesary 
information is not lost.

I can confirm I'm experiencing this problem with OpenOffice.org 3.1.0 on Mac OS 
X 10.5.7 . It's *very* frustrating!

The problem should be workarounded with the fix for issue 101453, it will be
done for OOo3.2.

I will leave this issue open, since the office is still sensitive to removing of
the temporary files. The workaround just avoids such a removing on Mac.

Created attachment 74689

   I cannot save as well, even on the new 4.0.0 version it will not let me save a document. No matter even if I type blaw on a new or previously worked on document even blah will not be saved. I useOpen Office for college and have for over two years and now this. Please fix this bug soon. I haft to create documents now.

(In reply to bizy from comment #0)
> High,
> 
> On many occasions, I've had this problem (nearly every day, since
> installation),
> I cannot imagine I'm the only one, but I didn't find any reports...  So...
> 
> Sometimes, I'm working on a document (*.odt).  A few hours later, I
> continue. 
> And I can't save the document anymore...!  (have to copy, paste it into new
> document...very annoying, especially because the document becomes longer and
> longer...
> 
> As to resume most of all the crash reports I have ever send:  it's always
> about
> not using the program for a while, and then reusing it...???!
> 
> More information:  version 2.02 (Dutch), portable (Toshiba), XP SP2
> 
> I hope this can be resolved...
> Success!
> 
> b.

TYou're not alone, been experiencing this for two days straight

Created attachment 83470 [details]
Write error message.

Created attachment 83471 [details]
Write error message - ods file

It still exists on 4.1.0
I uploaded screenshot and Calc ods file.

Screenshot message means:
Error saving the document 제목없음 1
Write Error.
The file could not be written.

I use Windows 7 Home Premium(Korean)

(In reply to OoO from comment #62)
Do we have a WIN user who suffers from the problem who can do some special tests to make the problem reproducible?

(In reply to OoO from comment #63)
Can you create a server installation due to <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Run_OOo_versions_parallel#Windows>
with latest English snapshot from <http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/index.html#win>, 
Modify bootstrap.ini in program folder:
"UserInstallation=$ORIGIN/../Data/settings" 
So that we can do some tests together?
But I can't do that before next week

(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #65)
I forgot to mention: it should be an ENGLISH snapshot. And if you can't reproduce the problem with the server installation may be you can already do some comparison between parallel versions on your computer.

@OoO:

Please give us the following informations:
1.) How do you save the attached file?
1.a) Should it be edited?
1.b) Is it sure that there no problems with writing rights?

2.) Can you save the file under another name (maybe not korean characters)/onto another place?

3.) Can you reproduce the behaviour at any time?

4.) Have you tried to change the position of temporary files as given in comment 44?

(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #65)
> (In reply to OoO from comment #63)
> Can you create a server installation due to
> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Run_OOo_versions_parallel#Windows>
> with latest English snapshot from
> <http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/index.html#win>, 
> Modify bootstrap.ini in program folder:
> "UserInstallation=$ORIGIN/../Data/settings" 
> So that we can do some tests together?
> But I can't do that before next week

Hi. thanks for reply.
but I can't English well so I don't understand those pages.
perhaps, I will do later.

(In reply to mroe from comment #67)
@mroe

(bad English)
1.) How do you save the attached file?
Ctrl-S or toolbar save button or toolbar save button on macro editor.

1.a) Should it be edited?
Edit is ok.

1.b) Is it sure that there no problems with writing rights?
I saved the file until yesterday. I have rights the file and folder.

2.) Can you save the file under another name (maybe not korean
characters)/onto another place?
I tried Save As... English name... other folder... but no, I can't

3.) Can you reproduce the behaviour at any time?
I wish, but no.

4.) Have you tried to change the position of temporary files as given in
comment 44?
Yes. but It has nothing to do with my case.

I have tried some tests on Windows 8.1(Korean) with VirtualBox.

1. installed Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.0_Win_x86_install_en-US.exe
English version is ok to save. no error. (at least my case)

2. installed Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.0_Win_x86_install_ko.exe
2-1. double click .ods in Explorer  - save - error raised.
2-2. run Calc program - open .ods on menu - save - no error.
2-3. If Tools - Options - Memory - "Load OpenOffice during system start-up" checked,
first time 2-1 after Windows boot - error. 2-1 after that - no error. 2-2 is always no error.

(In reply to Rainer Bielefeld from comment #65)

You first link is only for parallel installation?
If then, can I uninstall current version and install English snapshot version?

Reset the assignee to the default "issues@openoffice.apache.org".