Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 11901
Selecting a paragraph and end of paragraph marker
Last modified: 2013-08-07 14:38:26 UTC
I believe there's a problem with selecting, moving and copying paragraphs with OO Write. I am consistently unable to select a paragraph with the mouse. The text within the paragraph is selected, but the paragraph mark (i.e. delimiter), designated as [P] in this request, stays put. Here's a sample paragraph: Hello, my Name is John[P] [P] [P] [P] [P] We have a full moon[P] [P] If I move the paragraph {we have a full moon} using the CTRL+UP/DOWN it moves properly. For instance, if I move it to the top of the page, it will place the {we have a full moon} paragraph above the {Hello, my Name is John} paragraph. So this is the result: We have a full moon[P] Hello, my Name is John[P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] However, if I select the text with the mouse, I am unable to select the paragraph, but only the text within the paragraph. Selecting {We have a full moon} using the mouse, then dragging the "selected" paragraph to the top of the page gives me this result: We have a full moonHello, my Name is John[P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] <- hey, why is this still here? I thought I selected the paragraph! [P] There does not seem to be a consistent way to select the paragraph marker. There's a Select Paragraph command, which I've put on the toolbar, and it does not alter this behavior. It only selects the text in the paragraph, not the paragraph itself, To move the paragraph, the user must be able to move the paragraph marker, without having to select below, above, to the left or right of the paragraph. As stated in the Help File, under paragraph marks: "The paragraph delimiters also contain paragraph format information." I've checked all the newsgroups and issues postings and no one has reported this. This makes the product difficult to use.
Select the previous/next empty paragraph to include the paragraph mark. That's how every text editors/word processor work.
closed
I'm re-opening this issue because the reasons for closing this issue are inconsistent with the feature set of OO Write. This issue merely attempts to reproduce, using the mouse, what can be done using the keyboard, via dragging and dropping withing the Navigator, or the "move paragraph" buttons wich can be added to the toolbar. Furthermore, this is not how "every word processor works." It is however, how every text editor works, but when using a word processor, one would expect to be able to select and move all object with the mouse. The paragraph is an object. It cannot be moved or copied using the mouse. Only the text inside the paragraph can be moved. I respectfully request that you give this posting thorough consideration.
Benoit, thank you for using and supporting OOo. The trick is to move the mouse down one line after selecting the paragraph so that the paragraph marker is selected as well. I'm marking this as an enhancement request. Summary The user would like the operation of selecting a paragraph to be either: 1. Visually consistent with the keyboard paragraph move behaviour. 2. Better process and confirmation for selecting the end of paragraph marker. When using the keyboard to select and move paragraph text, there is no visual confirmation that the end of paragraph marker is selected. Some Text[p] [p] is not highlighted Yet when you use the Ctrl-Up Arrow ( other move commands ) to move the text, the entire block ( Some Text[p] ) is moved. When using a mouse, the user has to explictly select the end of paragraph marker by first moving to the end of the paragraph and dropping the mouse down one line. For comparision, MS Word will select the end of paragraph marker when the user moves the mouse to the end of the line. The same behaviour happens using the keyboard. User summary Unable to select paragraph using the mouse.
Reassigning to the feature area.
Thank you for making excellent software, looking at this issue, and suggesting a work around. Please note that this work around will not work on the last paragraph of a document. As noted, Word behaves differently. It is my experience with Microsoft Word that prompted to post this notice. Issues 10969, 10970, and 10971 are somewhat related to the issue you are reading. There's some duplication there, and some innacuracies, but I think you'll get the idea.
Thank you for reporting this issue. This issue is considered for 'Office later'.
I am going to have to agree with lamarcbr on this one... I was going to report this as an Enhancement request myself. Every word processing program I have ever used allows you select the end of paragraph marker as part of the selection with the mouse. Not being able to do this has several effects: 1. If you have to move down into the next paragraph to select the end of the paragraph as was suggested, you get the formatting from the next paragraph as part of your selection. For instance, if the next paragraph has a paragraph number, you get the paragraph number as well. Either way, the context you end up with if you want to keep typing is the style of the paragraph *after* the one you wanted to copy, not the one you copied. 2. If you do not move the to start of the next paragraph (with all the problems given in 1., above), you have an empty paragraph that you have to clean up where you cut the text... again, it not what would be expected. 3. Furthermore, given the copy or cut as given in 2., if you paste the text at the start of a new paragraph, you merge the two paragraphs together rather than displacing the paragraph that starts at the insertion point and you now have a mixed-style paragraph. You then need to separate the paragraphs by pressing Enter... again, not what I would have expected based on my experience. 4. And, as lamarcbr states, it is impossible to delete the last paragraph in a document (if you go to the previous paragraph and press Delete, the style of the last paragraph is now applied to the end of the paragraph you were in when you pressed Delete, and again, you're stuck with the end format), or change the format of the last paragraph in a document using a style (it does not seem to reset the style of the end of the last paragraph because you have not selected it). To fix the problem, you have to go to the bar at the top and select the font, size, and format that you want. It breaks the paragraph styles paradigm. For these useability/design/philosophic reasons, and the fact that this works differently than any word processing software that I have used previously, I would like to see this Enhancement targetted for a release rather than left as an open ended thing.
Created attachment 13364 [details] Document for demonstrating listed issues
jbotte@openoffice.org : Many thanks for adding your own comments to this issue. While many of the fixes and enhancements published lately in the 680_mxx revisions appear to be on the back-end of the suite, I think the user interaction part needs to be addressed also. This type of fix also has to be simpler than developping a new database front-end (which I can't wait to see!). One way to speed this up changes to paragraph handling is that perhaps you can vote for this issue. I'll see if I can post a note on one of the listserv to garner support (and more votes). I've been signed with the ui project, although I'm not sure what I can do to help. prgmgr and bh: I hope this is an acceptable practice. The developpers are doing a great job of delivering an outstanding product. Their work is appreciated.
I support this issue very much and think, that the developer do not understand the case correctly. It is not a question of marking or moving with the mouse or keyboard but a question of "transporting" all paragraph attributes (styles) with the copied or cut text. One example: with text "Paragraph x formatted with ..." ([n.] is a paragraph end mark; if you want to test, show all control characters in writer. Paragraph 1 formatted with Heading 1 [n1] Paragraph 2 formatted with Standard [n2] Paragraph 3 formatted with Haeding 2 [n3] Paragraph 4 formatted with Standard [n4] Paragraph 5 formatted with Heading 3 [n5] If you cut paragraph 2 and want to paste it after paragraph 4, the paragraph attributes (style) are not transported correctly. You can mark the text only without the paragraph mark [n.] with mouse or keyboard: Paragraph 2 formatted with Standard or you mark the text and the end mark [n.] - the "cursor" is already in Paragraph 3: Paragraph 2 Standard [n2] | Paragraph 3 (Cursor: | ) In the first case, there remains an empty paragraph, which must be deleted. And after paragraph 4 must be inserted a new paragraph to avoid, that the style of the inserted text is altered. In the second case, paragraph 3 looses its style "Heading 2". (Almost the same happens, if you delete a paragraph mark forward or backward.) Wanted is, that one can mark and cut the paragraph with all attributes and with the end mark so that it can be inserted with all this directly before the first charachter of another paragraph without disturbing his own and the other attributes. G. Marxen
Hello Andreas, do you agree with OOo later?
Not that you've asked my opinion, but I certainly do not agree. I've already got one reply when I sent this to users@openoffice.org. To have a database in OO 2.0, great! But what about focusing on basic editing capabilities? Plus, wouldn't this be a simple enhancement, compared to all the other ones planned? I don't get it.
Created attachment 17675 [details] Skinned calc dialog box (Format Cell).
I've read the comment of a0071 and his analysis of the situation is absolute correct except "the developers do not understand the case correctly" ;-) You could select the complete paragraph including its paragraph mark with the mouse if there is a paragraph behind your selection. This paragraph will inherit the paragraph style of the moved paragraph. These both disadvantages has to be changed but this will not be happen for OOo2.0. I agree not to close this issue and with the target OOo Later. BTW: the reason for the style problem is our algorithmn of merging paragraphs by deleting the paragraph mark (<DELETE> vs. <BACKSPACE>).
There is a design flaw with most word processors, that stands out in OOo, but is also annoying in Word. That is, moving text can have unintended consequences with paragraph formats. For example, if you delete a bulleted paragraph above a heading, the heading could become bulleted. I have developed a solution that addresses the concerns raised in: 11901: Selecting a paragraph and end of paragraph marker (long) 19547: Selecting text WITH last paragraph sign would be easyer 50280: quadruple-click to select paragraph should also select return character 8312: Tripple-click should select entire paragraph 32804: RFE for easier paragraph selection with the mouse First, there should be no such concept as a paragraph marker. It may be a valid programmer concept, but should not play a role in the UI. Selection should be limited to one of the following: TYPE A: Any number of characters within ONE paragraph, including all characters. The selection does not include paragraph styles/formats. If the selection is cut or deleted, there is no change in the paragraph format. If the selection is pasted, the target paragraph format does not change. If the selection is all characters in a paragraph, and the selection is deleted, there is an empty paragraph remaining. TYPE B: Any number of whole paragraphs. The selection includes all paragraph formats/styles. If the selection is cut or deleted, the entire paragraph(s) are deleted. If the selection is pasted after the last character of a paragraph, or before the first character of a paragraph, then the pasted paragraph(s) are inserted between the two existing ones. if the selection is pasted after the last character in a document, the last paragraph is unchanged and the selection is added to the document as paragraphs. If the selection is pasted before the first character of a document, the first paragraph is unchanged, the and the selection is inserted at the beginning of the document as paragraphs. If the selection is pasted within a paragraph, the target paragraph is first split into two at that point, then the selection is inserted as whole paragraphs between the two target paragraphs. TYPE C: Some characters in a top paragraph, all characters in zero or more middle paragraphs, and some characters in a bottom paragraph, with certain restrictions. The restrictions are that all paragraphs have identical formats, and that either (a) the first character of the top paragraph is not included, or (b) the last character of the bottom paragraph is not included. The paragraph formats are NOT included with the selection. Instead the selection is treated as type A with embedded paragraph breaks. If the selection is cut or deleted, the top and bottom paragraphs are joined (as they must have the same format). If the selection is pasted, the target paragraph is divided into 2 or more paragraphs that have the same format. The visual indicators of types A, B, and C are as follows: Type A and C are indicated by a highlight that looks like OOo 2.0. Type B is indicated by a highlight that extends left and right to the edge of the page or window. So, if the highlight is wide, it includes paragraph formatting; otherwise it only includes character formatting. The keyboard and mouse selection rules would be: (1) If you have a type A selection that includes all characters in a paragraph, and then you press the right arrow key (if you are at the end of the paragraph) or the left arrow key (if you are at the top of the paragraph), the selection changes to type B, and the whole paragraph is selected. (2) If you have a type A selection that includes all characters in a paragraph, and you use any means to extend the selection into another paragraph, then the selection changes to type B, and both paragraphs are selected. (3) If you have a type B selection, and you extend the selection by as little as one character, it remains type B, and whole paragraphs are added to the selection. So you can hold Shift and press the right arrow to select additional paragraphs. (4) If you have a type A selection that does NOT include all characters in the paragraph, and you extend the selection by any means into another paragraph, then it either becomes a type B or C selection depending on the format. If the formats are identical, it becomes a type C selection; otherwise it becomes type B. (5) If you have a type C selection, and you extend the selection by any means into another paragraph that does not have an identical format, then it becomes type B. The user will have to do certain things differently with this design. For example, to move part of one paragraph and all of the next one, if the formats are different, the user must FIRST break the first paragraph into two, then move two complete paragraphs. This guarantees that the formats of any other paragraphs are not affected. If the user does not break the first paragraph into two, then there will no way to make that selection. And there shouldn’t be, because it is an undefined selection.
->ianfordx Thank you for your valuable input.It's a very interesting concept and I have to think about it. I like the "select complete paragraph" mode.
Created attachment 45212 [details] Select Paragraph as in Wordpad
Please implement paragraph selection as in Wordpad. Double-click in the margin to select the entire paragraph including the paragraph marker. Shift-click to extend the selection. Control click to select all (entire document). Single-click to select a line (nearest sentence might be more useful). Already familiar to many users, intuitive, and easy to use. (Quadruple click is difficult and quickly tiring if used repeatedly).
*** Issue 79495 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 100513 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 100475 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 100921 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 109348 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 97163 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 113500 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
I'm not sure whether my issue is covered by the contributions above, but to be sure to have mentioned it in the right place I paste it here again: Using the keyboard shortcut "WordRightSel" selects the word right PLUS one whitespace (space, tab, line break right of the word. "WordLeftSel" just selects one word without a whitespace - and for my feeling this is the correct behaviour - select just the letters of the word - and nothing more.