Issue 123206 - Fields -> other -> cross referencing flexibility
Summary: Fields -> other -> cross referencing flexibility
Alias: None
Product: Writer
Classification: Application
Component: editing (show other issues)
Version: 4.0.0
Hardware: PC Windows 7
: P4 Normal (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: AOO issues mailing list
QA Contact:
Depends on:
Reported: 2013-09-06 15:55 UTC by aschwarz
Modified: 2014-04-18 07:42 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Confirmation in: 4.1.0-dev
Developer Difficulty: ---

TextWriter document (incomplete) (99.54 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2014-04-14 13:39 UTC, aschwarz
no flags Details
Proposed Style for Text and Numbering of objects (17.86 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2014-04-17 21:50 UTC, aschwarz
no flags Details

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Description aschwarz 2013-09-06 15:55:43 UTC
Well, your default settings for figures, frames, and tables just don't work for me. This forces me to use Fields -> other ->cross referencing. I have a suggestion for changing the options to be more accommodating.

There are several characteristics of these fields which should be selectable:
1: The field name to be used for field selection.
2: The display text associated with the name when the field is used.
3: The TOC category to be used when a TOC is created.
4: The TOC display text (which may be different or the same as the 
   use display text.
5: Autonumbering algorithm to be used:
   a. Existing scheme (one-up number globally affected). For example
      Table 1, Table 2, ...
   b. By Section/Chapter (one-up number effective for a Section).
      For example
      Table 3.2-1, Table 3.3-1, Table 4.5.2-1, ...
   c. Selection of the heading level to start one-up numbering.
      For example
        Select all heading levels (same as b. above)
        Select Heading2 (using example in b.)
           Table 3.2-1, Table 3.2-2, Table 4.5-1
        Select Heading1 (using example in b.)
           Table 3-1, Table 3-2, Table 4-1
   d. Select no autonumbering (strictly manual numbering).

As an example, suppose I have a frame and I place a frame title centered at the bottom of the frame outside the frame boundaries, then when I perform a Field -> other -> cross reference I would like to be presenting with the following "Set Reference" options:

    Reference Name
    Reference Text
    Table of Contents category
    Table of Contents text.

And a new options to set autonumbering, perhaps
    Fields -> other -> autonumbering
      Category                      <user chosen>
      Numbering (Global, Heading, ...)

And if I enter:

    Fields -> other -> autonumbering
       Category Example
       Numbering Heading 8

    Fields -> other -> cross referencing -> Set Reference

    Reference Name  Example 4.1.2-1    (autogenerated number)
    Reference Text  Just an Example
    Table of Contents category Example
    Table of Contents text Another Example

I would get in the TOC
      Example 4.1.2-1 Another Example

And when I use (Field -> other -> cross reference -> insert) for the entry I would get

... Example 4.1.2-1 Just an Example ...

It would be nice to be able to selectively use/not use the Reference Text when the reference is selected.

And, if autonumbering is implemented then automoving (ya' move it the number changes) remains.

It is clear (to me) that if autonumbering by a user chosen category is an option then some of the placement and methods used should be put in a place other than in Fields (which I assume is for manual and not automatic control). But it also seems that the options, wherever placed, should be available.

The motivation for this is that:
1: The existing default autonumbering scheme does not suit my purposes.
2: The existing default autoplacement scheme is just wrong.

The workaround for autonumbering is that every time I move one item in a category then there is an affect on all items following the moved item in both the 'from' and the 'to' location. Tedious.

And finally. Please don't take this as a criticism. It is not; not at all. And don't think that I am so "full of myself" that I think that this is the best or only solution. But, it would be nice ...

If you want a formal description of the requirements, information flow, placement and GUI I can provide it but it will take a month or so.

Comment 1 aschwarz 2013-09-06 16:09:33 UTC
Sigh. In haste we write, in reflection we change.

I forgot about placement of the item. Your standard placement of captions in frames and tables just doesn't work. So, it would be nice to have an option, by user selected (or OO selected) category for placement. I would suggest that for tables it should be before/after the table with alignment (center, right, ...), and for frames it should be inside/outside, top/bottom with alignment (center, right, ...) 

Also, the association of the names (Table, Figure, Example, ,...) for frames, tables and other things should be by user choice. For example in my current document I use a frame for graphic text (Figure) and for textual examples (Example). I place my user defined multi-line caption centered on the bottom outside the frame and number it by heading level (Figure 1.2.3-1). I use Fields -> other -> cross reference to capture the caption, but then there is no way to put this into the TOC.

Your option, for frames, is place the text "Figure" with autonumbering on the left of the frame inside the frame. I suppose that this can be adjusted to the bottom center. The autonumbering used is undesired. The placement inside a  frame means that if the frame has a border, then the identifying text is inside the border. To me this seems bad.
Comment 2 Edwin Sharp 2014-04-13 19:20:06 UTC
Please attach example.
Comment 3 aschwarz 2014-04-14 13:39:58 UTC
Created attachment 83188 [details]
TextWriter document (incomplete)

My comments were written against the included file. (Don't complain, I know it needs editing and is incomplete). 

You are free to modify and/or distribute the document providing that the modified document is (also) sent to me. The document will be licensed and open sourced when complete.

I hope that this helps. If you need additional information then I will provide it.


PS I really, really like OO. I do hope that (some of) my suggestions are implemented.
Comment 4 Edwin Sharp 2014-04-14 14:30:42 UTC
How is the Symmetric List Processor related to cross referencing given in description?
Comment 5 aschwarz 2014-04-14 21:20:00 UTC
(In reply to Edwin Sharp from comment #4)
> How is the Symmetric List Processor related to cross referencing given in
> description?

This is the document I was working on when I generated my comments. If you look at the document all of the "things I don't like to do" are contained in it. But, if you want an example, do you mean you want an example illustrating what I would like to see? Or do you want an example of something that I have done which I think is bad? Don't know, willing to work on either or both.

If you look at the figures, examples, and tables you can probably figure out what I did. I think I followed all the rules(?) and tried to 'force' the environment into something that I wanted. If you'd like, I can try to recapture and send a stepwise list of commands executed (see above).
Comment 6 Edwin Sharp 2014-04-15 08:12:45 UTC
IMHO this case study is obscuring your idea.
A simple mock-up visualizing what you have in mind along with a minimal example for usage is best.
Comment 7 aschwarz 2014-04-17 21:50:07 UTC
Created attachment 83225 [details]
Proposed Style for Text and Numbering of objects

Here is another approach to identifying and using numbering and names for Figures and Tables, as well as frames and objects. The idea is built on existing Style definitions and should be consistent in use with Styles, eg, once a style is created can be indefinitely reused. Not given in the example is means to use the style in document. I propose that for Figures, selection of a style creates a frame in which a figure can be imported, drawn, or otherwise constructed. For a Table, selecting a style consists of selecting a table, then a style with positioning etc. done automatically. 

If an title exists, then selecting a style will change the title text, associating the title with the object automatically and positioning it as required.

There are a number of options (not included in the writeup) which can be used to identify the runtime behavior. This has the desired effect of not requiring a hard decision to be made as to which option is 'mandated', and at the same time giving development some means for future change.

I hope you like this.
Comment 8 aschwarz 2014-04-17 21:56:27 UTC
Sorry, sorry, sorry. I forgot to include a numbering style option. Regardless of how heading numbering is defined, the user may want to see the numbering of object treated differently. If the Heading Style(s) specify I.a.i.1, the user may want to specify, or anything else. This effects selection of a Heading option specifically, but also affects Global selection.

I hope that this isn't too confusing, but confusing or not if it's not sufficient then send me e-mail for more details.

Comment 9 Edwin Sharp 2014-04-18 07:42:02 UTC
Confirmed with
AOO420m1(Build:9800)  -  Rev. 1586681
Win 7