I see both features seaparat, so they do not need be seen together.

With a print range you can define which cells should be printed at all and which should not be printed.

With a page break you can define manually which cells should go on a paper sheet and which on another one.

So, for me both can exist independent from each other. At least I don't see a problem when it is working this way.

Created attachment 86172 [details]
Screenshot of the problem

Where the lines are shown depends on the dedicated paper size.
If all columns have the same width and all rows have the same height you will see this lines in the same distance all over the sheet.

You can get the same result if you create a new document, enter some data, call File → Page Preview; [Close Preview].
It is the normal behaviour if one declare some print area the first time – directly or implicit via page preview.

I just tried and confirmed what you just said. It´s not just a pair of lines. They repeat over and over every 7 columns and every 44 rows (so they can possibly get in the way in more than two places), and they also start showing after going to Page preview.
You say it´s normal for them to show, but is it normal that you cannot hide them unless you restart the program or reopen the file?

Can you please check if menue View the radio button is at normal or pahe break?

As long as the radio button page break is selected described behaviour is as expected.
If radio button is on normal there is something wrong.

Thanks.

It's on normal as seen in the screenshot.

sorry I havent checked.

I have checked now. I am with Edison in this!

Steps to repeat:
1) Open a new Document
2) define a Print Range as you like
-> you recive marked print range in normal window (To me this is already a bug, imho it should switch to page preview before assigning any visual marks for page breaks.)
3) remove print range.
-> print range gets removed, page breaks becomme visible in normal view. (again sounds not like a wanted feature.)

Markus, Mroe you follow my view or do we need to discuss this further?

Solution imho is we should handle page breaks and print preview only in page break preview

or

Merge everything in "one View" and add options activate the markings of page breaks and print area. (In the long run I'd prefer this approach)

Markus, Mroe your Opinion?

Lol. If you define more then one print range you do not see any markings in normal view.

Steps to get rid of markings in normal:
1) open new calc document
2) define print range
-> you see markings
3) add another print range
-> markings disapear in normal. (break view s fine)

This realy does not look like a wanted feature.

1. If you work with a sheet and don't want to print it – why defining print ranges or look at the print preview?
If you do so – then Calc “knows” that you want to print the sheet and shows the page breaks.

2. Calc has the ability to define more than one print range per sheet.
But if you do so – the lines of different print ranges would cross each other. So which areas are the print ranges?

It works as designed – IMHO since the first version of Calc.

I am not sure if I got you right.

We have 2 views that you can view a Table:
Normal and page break preview.

To me Normal view is to work on my sheet. When I am done with it I can setup / arrange page break and print area in page break view.

However, when a user uses the print range functionality in normal View, he get optical feedback in normal view.
They suck in 2 ways:
1) they look like normal boarders.
2) the visual representation is incomplete.

What you are suggesting, is that we want to show users print areas as cell boarders when they want to work on a document?

So how do we resolve the different views on usability.
Please note we talk on visual effects, and not about printing functionality.

(In reply to mroe from comment #9)
> 1. If you work with a sheet and don't want to print it – why defining print
> ranges or look at the print preview?

For exporting, exporting to pdf. Or for producing charts (you wanna know what they'll look like when exported) or if you make tables in calc and then insert them into another program. Print preview is really quite useful even if you never print to paper.

(In reply to mroe from comment #9)
> 1. If you work with a sheet and don't want to print it – why defining print
> ranges or look at the print preview?
> If you do so – then Calc “knows” that you want to print the sheet and shows
> the page breaks.
> 
> 2. Calc has the ability to define more than one print range per sheet.
> But if you do so – the lines of different print ranges would cross each
> other. So which areas are the print ranges?
> 
> It works as designed – IMHO since the first version of Calc.

+1
I still don't see this as problem or at least as a problem that need a fix.

> I still don't see this as problem or at least as a problem that need a fix.
Okay and now?

I see the need for a fix. (Described above.)

Can I set this on confirmed?
Or do you want to set this on Wont Fix and I make a private Comment that I want to propose a fix, when I am able to?

Or do we want to wait for more Opinions?

(In reply to Marcus from comment #12)
> I still don't see this as problem or at least as a problem that need a fix.
Are you okay with those lines sticking up until you close the software or until you close the spreadsheet file? 

What about layout and borders? if you use borders not for aesthetics but for organizing information and for making it easier to read and visualize, those default page line breaks can interfere with your layout.

Or if you use something like for example conditional formatting to underline rows that need revision or contain errors, and your table is more than 100 rows long, you would be misled by the lines below rows 45, 90, 135 and so on. Then you would revise them and find nothing wrong and wonder why they are underlined, revise again, find nothing... confusing and desperating. This is just an example but there can be several situations in which these lines get in the way of your work and you.

(In reply to Peter from comment #13)
> > I still don't see this as problem or at least as a problem that need a fix.
> Okay and now?
> 
> I see the need for a fix. (Described above.)

For me: definitively NO.
It works as designed – the behaviour is not a DEFECT!
Much people works with the application and its features since more than 20 years!

If one use the print preview (→ implicit print ranges) one want to see which rows and columns have room at the output size.


> Can I set this on confirmed?
> Or do you want to set this on Wont Fix and I make a private Comment that I
> want to propose a fix, when I am able to?
> 
> Or do we want to wait for more Opinions?

Maybe you can provide an extension which deletes the line marks. So everybody can use it but there is no must. Maybe a simple macro can do the job.

The user has many choices:
1. File → Reload
If he doesn't want see any line marks:
2. Tools → Options…: OpenOffice – Appearance:
Set the colour for Grid lines and Automatic page breaks to the same value.
3. Declare the whole sheet as print range.
…

(In reply to mroe from comment #15)
> (In reply to Peter from comment #13)
> > > I still don't see this as problem or at least as a problem that need a fix.
> > Okay and now?
> > 
> > I see the need for a fix. (Described above.)
> 
> For me: definitively NO.
> It works as designed – the behaviour is not a DEFECT!
> Much people works with the application and its features since more than 20
> years!

thats also my view of the point.

> If one use the print preview (→ implicit print ranges) one want to see which
> rows and columns have room at the output size.
> 
> 
> > Can I set this on confirmed?
> > Or do you want to set this on Wont Fix and I make a private Comment that I
> > want to propose a fix, when I am able to?
> > 
> > Or do we want to wait for more Opinions?
> 
> Maybe you can provide an extension which deletes the line marks. So
> everybody can use it but there is no must. Maybe a simple macro can do the
> job.
> 
> The user has many choices:
> 1. File → Reload
> If he doesn't want see any line marks:
> 2. Tools → Options…: OpenOffice – Appearance:
> Set the colour for Grid lines and Automatic page breaks to the same value.
> 3. Declare the whole sheet as print range.
> …

With 3 workarounds (or even more?) I don't see a need for a fix. There is also always the risk that other people are happy to get an impression which cells are on which pages.

BTW:
These all are just opinions. At the end a developer is needed to see it the same way and tries to fix it.

(In reply to Marcus from comment #16)
> (In reply to mroe from comment #15)
> > (In reply to Peter from comment #13)
> > > I see the need for a fix. (Described above.)
> > 
> > For me: definitively NO.
> > It works as designed – the behaviour is not a DEFECT!
> > Much people works with the application and its features since more than 20
> > years!
> 
> thats also my view of the point.

I think it is important in a community project to get on the same page. So no one is left behind. The Dev can make the improvement, but the target is defined by users.

I agree while the situation is suboptimal, you can tweak Open Office to work around the problem.

I suggest we add a 3rd Radio button Option.
1) work view (new one, no preview option at all)
2) print preview (what is today: normal)
3) print design (what is today: page break preview)

I also agree the Issue is not an Defect but an Enhancement. The feature in itself is valid. But it is not satisfactory to the end.

Is this approach acceptable to everyone?

Tools → Options…: OpenOffice Calc: [x] Page breaks

Simply uncheck it. Then you get your “work view”.
(I never changed this setting because there was no need for me.)

I don't see any benefit for a new view.



Assign the following macro to a button:

Sub toggleBreakLines_mroe()
Dim Doc As Object
Dim CurrentController As Object
Dim bToggle As Boolean
Doc = ThisComponent
CurrentController = Doc.getCurrentController()
bToggle = CurrentController.getPropertyValue( "ShowPageBreaks" )
CurrentController.setPropertyValue( "ShowPageBreaks", Not bToggle )
End Sub

(In reply to mroe from comment #15)
> (In reply to Peter from comment #13)
> The user has many choices:
> 1. File → Reload
> If he doesn't want see any line marks:
> 2. Tools → Options…: OpenOffice – Appearance:
> Set the colour for Grid lines and Automatic page breaks to the same value.
> 3. Declare the whole sheet as print range.
> …

1. it's an option, but I think not so good with complex or heavy files
2. isn't that similar to options > Openoffice calc > view > page breaks? still I wouldn't disable them because they're useful and necessary... just not all the time. Currently you have to leave them on all the time unless you use one of the not so obvious workarounds.
3. Do you mean by using Format > Print ranges > Edit > and selecting "entire page" from the list? that doesn't get rid of the lines


(In reply to Marcus from comment #16)


> There is
> also always the risk that other people are happy to get an impression which
> cells are on which pages.
> 
Neither extreme should be enforced. Both options should be available: for users that are bothered by those lines being on all the time and for those that don't. Some sort of "always keep page break lines on" checkbox.

(In reply to Edison from comment #19)

> Neither extreme should be enforced. Both options should be available: for
> users that are bothered by those lines being on all the time and for those
> that don't. Some sort of "always keep page break lines on" checkbox.

Please read comment 18.
You find the checkbox under

Tools → Options…: OpenOffice Calc: [x] Page breaks

(In reply to mroe from comment #20)
> (In reply to Edison from comment #19)
> 
> Please read comment 18.
> You find the checkbox under
> 
> Tools → Options…: OpenOffice Calc: [x] Page breaks

Not the same. That basically disables the function, whereas what I am suggesting shows the lines only when they are called

(In reply to Edison from comment #21)
> Not the same. That basically disables the function, whereas what I am
> suggesting shows the lines only when they are called

???
This IS how Calc works!
Defining print ranges or using print related functions triggers the display of the marking lines for page breaks.

Sorry, for me NOT AN ISSUE, EOT.

(In reply to mroe from comment #22)

> This IS how Calc works!
> Defining print ranges or using print related functions triggers the display
> of the marking lines for page breaks.
> 
> Sorry, for me NOT AN ISSUE, EOT.

Yes, that's how calc works, but this could be an enhancement. Again, the problem is not the triggering of the lines, but not being able to turn them back off once they're no longer needed (without doing things such as changing settings twice or reloading files). 

I understand those lines don't bother everyone but please don't close the issue (I'm assuming EOT means End Of Thread) so that others can comment on it.

Thank you

(In reply to Edison from comment #23)
> I understand those lines don't bother everyone but please don't close the
> issue (I'm assuming EOT means End Of Thread) so that others can comment on
> it.
> 
> Thank you

We have confirmed the issue and changed it from defect to enhancement.

I believe it is best to start as extention. Will have a look.

OK. I will use your workaround for now then (comment #8)