Issue 25513 - Creation of non-removable horizontal rule in document
Summary: Creation of non-removable horizontal rule in document
Status: CLOSED DUPLICATE of issue 21299
Alias: None
Product: Writer
Classification: Application
Component: code (show other issues)
Version: OOo 1.1
Hardware: PC Linux, all
: P3 Trivial (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: bettina.haberer
QA Contact: issues@sw
URL:
Keywords: oooqa
: 20979 (view as issue list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2004-02-15 23:36 UTC by hagbard
Modified: 2013-08-07 14:41 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: ENHANCEMENT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


Attachments
Simple test document with non-removable horizontal rule. (5.31 KB, application/vnd.sun.xml.writer)
2004-02-15 23:37 UTC, hagbard
no flags Details

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Description hagbard 2004-02-15 23:36:11 UTC
I do not know how to reproduce this, but I currently have a horizontal rule 
which cannot be deleted (at least not in any obvious way). 
The caret cannot be placed on the rule and if a selection spans the rule and 
is subsequently deleted, the rule remains.  Backspace does not work.  If I 
show non-printable characters, nothing special appears for the line itself. 
It is as if the word processor no longer recognises the entity in the document 
but it remains there for rendering purposes. 
 
I managed to cut'n'paste it into a second document (attached) which seems to 
retain these properties.
Comment 1 hagbard 2004-02-15 23:37:04 UTC
Created attachment 13151 [details]
Simple test document with non-removable horizontal rule.
Comment 2 hagbard 2004-02-15 23:39:06 UTC
And I have tried saving the file and restarting OpenOffice and it still 
persists. 
If this turns out to be a 'feature' then may I suggest that this behaviour is 
somewhat confusing (and will you be so kind as to tell me how to delete the 
damn ruler as I have one in an important document :) 
Comment 3 Regina Henschel 2004-02-16 00:06:15 UTC
The simple rulers are no objects but a hard formated border of the paragraph.
You must turn off the border. In your attached file there a some consecutive
paragraphs which such a border, you have to correct them all.
Comment 4 hagbard 2004-02-16 00:37:10 UTC
Okay, I feel suitably embarrassed now. 
There is however still a UI issue here in my opinion.  When I entered the 
'horizontal rule' I did so by simply typing 4 consecutive dashes (this must be 
a short cut enabled by default). 
I do find it somewhat confusing that something which can be conceptually 
initialised by simple key-strokes (rather than using a menu) cannot be undone 
by simple keystrokes alone.  I would certainly have preferred if the UI had 
warned me of its actions when I first did this (as happens for auto-correction 
et al). 
Perhaps this should really be a UI enhancement request then. 
Comment 5 mci 2004-02-16 09:18:50 UTC
reassigned to mci
Comment 6 mci 2004-02-16 09:29:23 UTC
Hi hagbard,

thanks for using and supporting OpenOffice...

You found the "apply border" feature ( a part of AutoCorrect)...

out of the help: 
"Automatically applies a border at the base of the preceding paragraph when you
type three or more specific characters, and then press Enter. To create a single
line, type three or more hyphens (-), or underscores ( _ ), and then press
Enter. To create a double line, type three or more equal signs (=), asterisks
(*), tildes (~), or hash marks (#), and then press Enter. The following table
summarizes the line thickness for the different characters:

---   0.5pt single underline
___   1.0pt single underline
===   1.1pt double underline
***     4.5pt double underline
~~~   6.0pt double underline
###   9.0pt double underline"

You can get rid of the line by (at least ) 2 ways: 

1.   press ctrl + z  right after the hotizontal line appears ( which is the best
way in my 
      opinion...)
2.   Select the text and choose "Format" ->"Default"
      Other hard formatting (like bild,...) will be lost, too!
Comment 7 hagbard 2004-02-16 09:49:24 UTC
Firstly, I accept that this is no longer an issue, but in regard to the last 
comment; whilst CTRL-Z is a good way to get rid of it, it only works if you 
perceive the border as a problem as soon as you've typed it.  I actually left 
it in, thinking it was a horizontal line (which is what Wikipedia does with 
consecutive dashes) but then much later found it to be non obvious to remove. 
 
Unlike having '* Foo' automatically apply a bullet point, which is removable 
using backspace, having something apply meta information to the paragraph 
itself as the result of interpretting normal typed characters was a little 
surprising to me. 
 
Don't worry about replying to this, I'm not interested in arguing this point 
too far, but felt I needed to say something (I'm hardly computer illiterate 
and find myself surprised when a UI manages to trip me up in this manner). 
 
Many thanks for doing such an excellent job on OpenOffice and please keep up 
the good work. 
Comment 8 mci 2004-02-16 10:10:20 UTC
Hi hagbard,

thanks for your fast response...

I agree this is not very intuitive...
I make this an enhancement wish to make it possible for the user to disable this
feature and change the summary to
"make it possible to choose if autocorrect shall apply borders"...

reassigned to bh
Comment 9 rblackeagle 2004-02-16 21:49:05 UTC
A third "fix" is to mark the paragraph(s) affected and select Format >
Paragraph.  Then go to the Borders tab and remove the underlining.  This will
remove the line without affecting other formatting features.

I had previously reported this and felt it was an error in the help files.  I
have been thinking about it a lot and feel it deserves being handled as a bug or
an rfe since the current method reproduces the amazingly repeated underlines
that MS Word puts out -- a royal pain, if there ever was one.

Setting the underline should have exactly the same effect as Format > Paragraph
/ Borders and selecting an underline FOR THAT PARAGRAPH O-N-L-Y!!!

The present method changes the underlying style, giving paragraph after
paragraph of lines which both confuses the user and leads to major frustration.

Please look into this and see if it can be fixed -- both the help files and the
effect on styles.  It should be a  one-paragraph change only and no more.
Comment 10 drc 2004-05-08 18:51:30 UTC
See also Issue 20979
Comment 11 michael.ruess 2004-05-10 12:56:15 UTC
*** Issue 20979 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 12 uncleart 2004-11-11 12:43:25 UTC
I have experienced similar frustration in removing an inadvertently-inserted
line (OOo 1.1.2, win 98). Removing the (counterintuitive) border through the
paragraph format dialog only pushes the line up one paragraph. This is too much
work to delete something inadvertently and casually added to the document. I
threw up my hands and switch to MS Word for this particular document.

In my view, (1) the auto-line should -not- be default;
(2) automatic insertion of the line should be accompanied by a warning box that
stresses the difficulty or practical impossibility of removing the line and
urging the user to CTRL-Z to avoid further problems;
(3) horizontal line should be made deletable by conventional, intuitive method,
e.g. click to select, then <DEL>, or backspacing over it.
(4) the issue should be clearly addressed in the Help system.

Having said all that - which is mainly about useability - in my particular case
I simply cannot delete that horizontal rule as it just bumps up a paragraph each
time I delete that border format - which is without doubt a bug.
Comment 13 lohmaier 2004-11-17 00:21:28 UTC
see issue 17758 for information why "the line moves one paragraph up"
regarding the "warning": when autoformat happens, the help-bulb appears.
regarding documentation in help: see issue 23770
I mark this issue as duplicate.

If there are issues left, please file a new one. Multiple requests are invalid.

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 21299 ***
Comment 14 lohmaier 2004-11-17 00:22:07 UTC
closing duplicate.