Issue 42733 - UI should not use term "CTL"
Summary: UI should not use term "CTL"
Alias: None
Product: Internationalization
Classification: Code
Component: ui (show other issues)
Version: 680m74
Hardware: All All
: P4 Trivial (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: AOO issues mailing list
QA Contact:
Depends on:
Blocks: 41707
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Reported: 2005-02-14 13:20 UTC by samphan
Modified: 2013-08-07 15:00 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


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Description samphan 2005-02-14 13:20:08 UTC
OOo uses the term Complex Text Layout or CTL in various places. For example, in
Format/ Character dialog box, there are 'Western text font', 'Asian text font'
and 'CTL font'; and in Tools/Options/Language Setting/Languages/Default
languages for documents/CTL and Language Setting/Complex Text Layout.

The term means Bidirectional and Indic/SE Asian scripts. However, it is
meaningless to end-users. It's only meaningful to i18n developers. Thai users
will not know that 'CTL font' is the place to set Thai font.

In Windows, the Control Panel under Supplemental Language Support uses the terms
"East Asian languages" and "complex script and right-to-left languages
(including Thai)", which is a lot better than OOo's "Asian" and "CTL".
Comment 1 arthit 2005-02-15 18:11:12 UTC

"Asian" languages in OOo are actually just Chinese, Japanese and Korean (CJK),
which better described as "East Asian languages" (more focus, less confusion).
Comment 2 pseudo_daoist 2005-02-16 00:58:28 UTC

a) Rename Asian to either CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) or Veritical writing

b) Split CTL into at least the following groups:
i) Semitic Languages [Or writing systems]; or Right To Left languages.
ii) Indus Valley languages [ Or writing systems];
iii) Mongolian and related languages [ Or writing systems][OOo does not
currently support these writing systems.];
iv) Bostrophedon writing systems.  [Which OOo does not currently explicitly



Comment 3 jjc 2005-02-16 01:07:14 UTC
I think there are two separate issues:

a) what term should be used to describe the script groupings that OOo currently has?

b) how should scripts be grouped?

This issue is a).  I think the point jonathon is making is related to b). I
completely agree that the current grouping is not ideal.  I would argue that the
best solution is to be able to specify font independently for each script (see
issue #72735).  However, I agree that a good intermediate step would be to split
CTL into Indic and right-to-left writing systems.
Comment 4 falko.tesch 2005-02-16 12:23:35 UTC
FT: We already had very long discussion about CTL. But since it is mentioned in
full length (not abbreviated) on the same page we agreed to use CTL on this page.
Asian Language is a common term (already used by MS) for CJK so again we decided
to use this term.
And replacing CTL with something like "Arabic, Hebrew, Indic, Mongolian and
Sout-East Asian" is not an option due to string length.
Comment 5 lists 2005-02-21 07:49:17 UTC
I would like to insist on this issue.

CTL is an abreviation of a technical term, not recognised or understood by CTL
users. Our experience is that it is very confusing. As for languages as Thai or
Khmer configuration of OOo must be done for correct usage (otherwise it is very
difficult to type in the local language), all user, at the beginning of their
experience, must go through figuring out that CTL is important. They cannot do
it without expert help.

If it is not possible to put a longer explanation at the tic box itself, it
could be a good idea to include one next to it.

MS does write an explanation (event if not perfect, not even gramatically
correct) that is still technical, but better than CTL.

Note in the attachment that MS uses "East Asian" for CJK. This would be a
positive change, even this late in the process.

CTL (Right-to-left, Indic and SE Asian) could a short explanation if it fits.
Comment 6 falko.tesch 2005-02-25 11:55:33 UTC
FT: Reassigned and target set.
Comment 7 falko.tesch 2005-02-25 11:56:20 UTC
Comment 8 e.matthis 2005-02-25 12:10:26 UTC
I agree that more self-explanatory wording would be better, but that the English
text will not be changed for OOo 2.0.

I suggest that the localizations for OOo 2.0 change any "CTL" texts to fit their
own locale, that is, localize the UI string to be immediately clear to users of
your language version of OOo.

For example, 'CTL font' --> 'Thai font'
That's the beauty/purpose of localization---you control what _your_ users read.

Comment 9 samphan 2005-02-27 07:31:29 UTC
Classic user question from a linux user forum:-

Please help.  I am using OS X and want to type and edit Thai text.
I recently installed OpenOffice 1.1.2.  I launch the program and go to.

Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages

I have Asian languages support 'Enabled' checked.  But in Asian pulldown
menu, I do not see 'Thai' as a listed language.

I understand that I can type and edit Thai using OpenOffice.  Can someone
please advise of what steps I should take to make it work?
Comment 10 e.matthis 2005-03-16 18:04:15 UTC
Liz->Samphan, thanks for the example from the Linux forum. BTW, "CTL
(Right-to-left, Indic and SE Asian)" is a good suggestion, but won't fit in the
space we have, due to space necessary for localization.

I also inquired if all languages might simply be listed in one list box (without
the need for geographic or writing system explanation in the label), but was
told that the three separate list boxes are necessary for functional reasons. 

Still working on it. In the meantime, I wish users would use the Help. 
In OOo Help it says: 
"Currently, supports Hindi, Thai, Hebrew, and Arabic as CTL
Enable CTL support using Tools - Options - Language Settings - Languages."
Comment 11 lists 2005-03-17 00:43:26 UTC

The fact that the help names exclusivelly some languages as supported is
dangerous, as it will be obsolete very quickly.. As a matter of fact it is
already obsolete, OOo supports Khmer, Tamil and Kannada, and will soon support
other indic languages.

Conceptually it would be better for the users to have separate boxes for
"right-2-left" and for "indic and S.E. Asian", because they will directly
identify with one of them. Putting them together is making the UI follow the
technology below, instead of the grouping in which the users would easily fit
Comment 12 jjc 2005-04-02 00:48:17 UTC
The Thai localized version of Word 2003 does exactly what liz suggests: it uses
the term "Thai and other languages" (in Thai) for CTL.
Comment 13 e.matthis 2005-07-26 17:28:47 UTC
Reassigning to FT for future consideration. I don't see another solution other
than the localization differentiation at this time, but perhaps a new design
solution is necessary as some of the input suggests. I cannot fix this with just
a string change because of the grouping/functionality.
Comment 14 falko.tesch 2005-10-20 21:06:45 UTC
FT: Yes, I agree. We rather should use "Complex Script" instead. Something for
the new language lead.

Comment 15 Rob Weir 2013-07-30 02:14:08 UTC
Reset assignee on issues not touched by assignee in more than 2000 days.