Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 4579
Special Character Shortcuts
Last modified: 2018-06-21 19:21:41 UTC
It is consistently difficult to type in foreign languages in the English version of OOo. Languages such as Spanish with many accents and German with umlauts and [ss] require special characters to be used with frequency, and the current implementation is unacceptably slow (Insert->Special Character...->[find character]). Shortcuts that are currently used in other word processing programs should be included in the next build (e.g. [alt + ', e]=é ; [alt + :, a]=ä ; [alt + s, s]=ß, etc. and so forth.). I have already thought out a lot of shortcuts, so whichever programmer decides to take this up should email me at toshirooc@yahoo.com. One thing that will have be watched for are previous shortcuts ([ctrl + s]={save}, so the shortcuts for ß and {save} will need to be differentiated.
In my opinion this clearly a question for customization. I like the solution that M$ Word has, which is, that the user can customize special characters just like other commands. This is important, because mathematicians use other shortcuts frequently than writer of foreign texts or everyday writers and so on. If standard shortcuts will be implemeted for common characters these have to be language- (and keyboard-) specific. I, as a German user, do for example not need standard shortcuts for ä,ö,ü, and ß, but English User will need them. To use so many shortcuts the shortcut combination possibilities will have to be expanded, to use f.e. Alt+a, Alt+Shift+a. or Alt+Ctrl+a. In the moment it is not possible to create shortcuts with the Alt key.
Why didn't I think of that? Foreign language keyboards are all different, and mathematicians use different shortcuts and everything. Maybe the only solution is to have a 'customization' tool that allows binding of characters/macros/commands (perhaps even changing the shortcuts that are already established for certain commands, such as ctrl+s=save), and then have config files for it that would make it so an english keyboard has math shortcuts, and then has a shortcut that will either change it's shortcuts to different ones that would allow foreign language typing or even change the in-openoffice configuration to that of an actual foreign keyboard (I know that Windows has this capability, and possibly Linux (never looked for it), but having it so foreign language keyboard configurations work only in openoffice would have the additional advantage of not interfering with native-language programs.) In a question for Matthias, I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on what he means by "On the moment it is not possible to create shortcuts with the Alt key". Also, if a programmer out there with knowledge of how OOo currently handles shortcuts has the time, could you please tell me what OOo's limitations are/possibilities are for this potential feature?
Concerning the question of J. Meyerowitz: This is a seperate issue (no. 4756), but what I mean is, that on the customization tab "keyboard" there are lots of shortcuts to which commands can be assigned. There Shortcuts include F1-F12, Ctrl (or "Strg" in Germany) + key or Ctrl + Shift + key. But Shortcuts with the Alt key are not listed and can therefore not used for customization. They are nevertheless used as shortcuts to the menus. (Maybe that's the reason why they are not customizable.) In M$ Word however it is common that people assign special characters to shortcuts with "Alt" like "Alt"+"a" for "ä" or "å". You listed some examples yourself.
Reassigned to Christian.
Can't you use ALT + ASCII/Unicode character number. This works in every application. For example ALT + 0169 gives the copyright symbol: ©.
Reassigned to Bettina.
It is usually possible to allow customization of commands including the Alt/Meta key, and still allow Alt to be used to do the menus. Didn't an older version of OpenOffice have this? I find myself crippled without being able to use Alt to setup shortcuts. There simply aren't enough letter keys on the keyboard.
A further tabpage for assigning shortcut keys to special characters should be integrated into the existing "Insert Special Characters"-dialog.
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Hello Oliver, please have a look at my last comment. Please give approval for this evaluated OO.o 2.0 flagged issue. If you confirm with the target OO.o 2.0, then please keep it on your owner (or the owner of the concerning developer) for implementation. In case you want this issue for 'OOo Later', then please reset the target milestone. If you decline the issue finally, please set the resolution to 'Wontfix' (but do not close). In case of 'OOo Later' or 'Wontfix' please reset it on Bettina's owner. Thank you.
The configuration of shortcuts only supports assignment of functions but doesn't support configuration of parameters to that functinos. I.e. you can configure the function "Insert special character" but you cannot add a certain character to it. This lack of flexibility of the configuration makes an implementation for OOo 2.0 impossible.
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As the main limitation that prevents the implementation of such a feature is in the configuration of menues/toolboxes/short cuts I reassign the task to mba.
We think that this is doable for OOo2.0. Carsten already implemented commands with parameters.
CD: The core function (commands with parameters) is already implemented. It should be possible to implement the missing part with the OOo 2.0 time frame.
It would become much easier to use the 'special characters' menu to insert strings in alternate languages if the string that's been currently typed were editable. Right now in OpenOffice 1.1 if I type in a series of characters, and I blow it and type one in wrong, the only obvious thing to do is to cancel and start over. This (as the originator of this thread pointed out) is particularly problematic when the characters are in a foreign language that's not easy to re-type. One very good thing the special chars menu does now is collapse the characters present in a given font down, so you don't have to look at screen after screen of blank unicode characters, which is great. But I note that it doesn't work consistently when you use it to insert foreign languages. E.g., if I select Hebrew (especially if I use a font that has a lot of the special diacritics used with biblical/liturgical Hebrew), when I paste the Hebrew word into an English paragraph, it's sometimes jumbled up, with the font sometimes ending up being what's in my document rather than what I selected in the special character menu, and with the point size sometimes being off (e.g., the first character will get the point size I picked in the special char menu, but the rest will be that of the paragraph it's pasted into). Also the left-right characters often get jumbled up with the Hebrew right-left characters that are being pasted in if they're pasted in right before Latin-1 punctuation characters, numerals, etc. (not letters). In sum, as the original poster noted, the 'special characters' menu is hard to use for inputting languages with a lot of diacritics. It exhibits some usability issues as well as some real bugs when the inserted text is right-left and the paragraph you're inserting it into is left-right.
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CD->AS: Please take over.
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according to http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releases&msgNo=7690 this issue will be set to OOoLater
adding keywords according to new RFE process - Sophie
I agree that language capabilities are lacking (both foreign language and "math" language). One thing that I have not run across, in particular, is that it would be useful to have a more fluid method of alternation between standard-script, superscript, and subscript. Especially for math related work this would be useful (alternating between Greek text, exponents, and subscripts is time consuming).
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Since we have added paragraph styles to available categories for cutomizing keyboard shortcuts, why not add special characters. Or add the dialog in the insert special character menu. I think this is a key feature for people trying to migrate from MS Word, because you can do it there. On a side note, as a work around, you could assign the special character in the autocorrect menu table. Peter
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In Romanian, there are special characters, too. I hope this issue gets fixed (or implemented). A temporary workaround coud be: (e.g.) replace "a>" or "a'" with the corresponding character "ă", but the replace should permit wildcards: "[a-z]*a>[a-z]*" to "... ă ...". Implementing wildcards in the replace function would be really great (not only for this workaround).
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Created attachment 35992 [details] WordPerfect Keyboard Customisation Dialogue
I would like to the Alter Key to be customisable, and be able to assign text directly. In WordPerfect, even the alpha/numeric keys can be modified if one wishes, and entire paragraphs of text can be essigned to a shortcut. Control, Control Shift, Alter, Alter Shift, Control Alter, Control Alter Shift, with any function key or alpha/numeric key. Wordpefect's functions, macros, or external programs can also be assigned — all from the same simple tabbed dialogue.
there's a lot of talk about the alt-key around, but really the most important thing is just adding a little text field to the "insert > special character" window where one may enter a unicode value directly and have OO Writer generate the symbol.
Alt-key assignments are useful for much more than typing special characters. They can replace other shortcuts freeing the control key for typing accented characters, which is the easiest key combination to use, as it exists on both sides of the keyboard. Typing codepoints into a dialogue requires more keystrokes and one needs to remember the numbers. This is a very inefficient way to type foreign characters. In Opera I can type āīūḍḷṃṇṭ very easily with the control key. If I need to use Alt for typing or other functions I can — no problem — alt m = m-dash, since control m is already used to type ṃ (m dot below). For a word-processor, the current limit of control and control shift is too limited.
believe me, i am a fan of keyboard shortcuts, but i'm think of the time usage of the developers and what would be fastest to implement, plus the fact that most (all?) keyboard shortcuts do something that already is in the menu, so start with the menu first.
I have described an alternative method to implement this in issue: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=67500 Instead of using a key combination, a simple work-around would be to use automatic word-replacements, e.g. a' => to some special character (e.g. ä) A' => another special character (e.g. Ä) a+ => some other special character ... Hovever, for this to work, the automatic replacement should be alble to perform replacements inside words, too (not just whole words). Therefore, - either create a second replacement list, that specifies strings that are always replaced, even if it is not a word (e.g. Gra'ser => Gräser, in German grass) - or implement the more advanced feature of issue 67500 (i.e. wildcards in replacement lists) This type of implementation will not depend on any keystroke combinations (like alt+shift+something), and would easy allow implementing many special characters simultaneously, withoud the need for very dumb and hard to remember key combinations. (When choosing key combinations just for a few special characters, it is easy to assign meaningfull ones. However, if you try to extend the list of those special chars, you get really fast into trouble. My solution creates more logical pseudo-shortcuts.) If you find my solution good, please vote for that issue, too. Some of the developers showed somehow less optimism for that one.
There are lots of work-arounds for this issue, but work-arounds are not what is wanted. What is wanted is more shortcut assignment options. 1. Use of Alt Key combinations as well as Control, Control Shift. Two keystrokes shortcuts like ~n to type ñ as in Word, might also be wanted by some users. 2. Direct assignment of text — one or more characters 3. A simplified dialogue like that attached to make the customising process easier.
I hope this gets implemented, but I also want to point out some problems of the pure key-combination approach, e.g. - in french there are 3 types of accent for e (e with '/', e with '\' and e with inverted 'v'; I do not have a french keyboard) and if I count the upper case lettrs, we will have 6 possible combinations, definetily more than any easy and logical key combination. (there are simply not enough key combinations using e + ctr + shift for all this) - I often write in Romanian and German: there are 2 accents for a in Romanian, and still one different in German; when I write in both languages simultaneosly, I will need again 6 shortcuts for the various flavours of 'a', not easily done with key-combinations. Therefore, - when I write only in German (I have an English keyboard, like many), the key-combination approach is probably easier to use - when I write in Romanian, both approaches seem similar in ease of use - when I write simultaneulsy in German and Romanian, (or I would have to write in french, I currently do not write in french, but I know others who do), the replacement approach is more powerful. However, this issue is quite old. I hope therefore that the approach that can be implemented more easily gets implemented to have something working. And I hope it gets implemented fast.
This issues has generated much discussion but apparently little action. The delay may be due to the great variety of viewpoints and of possible techniques. For generating accented letters [letters with diacritics], Word has a built-in process using dead-keys. For ex, press Ctrl+` [dead-key] and then e to get è, or A to get À, etc. Very efficient, simple, and intuitive. I think it would be very useful if something like that were included in Writer [or perhaps throughout OOo].
Whatever solution is found should *definitely* be implemented throughout the suite! Anything else would be a truly bad joke.
I would like to support opaben's suggestion for this issue - ie use the same mechanism as Word. It's simple, straightforward, and provides lots of extra characters without using up too many keyboard shortcuts. This issue has been around forever and really needs to get sorted - to do even simple translation work I have to switch to Word, one more reason why I have to continue to buy MS Office upgrades...
Also, should not issue 6847 be folded into this one - they're obviously the same basic problem.
I've been thinking about this and attach a solution. It's a trivial macro that looks up a character pair in a table and if it finds a match substitutes a corresponding accented character. The macro can be bound to any key of the user's choice - I use ctrl+shift+z and it works fine for me. Note it only needs ONE special key regardless of how many translate pairs you've defined. So if I type e: then immediately press ctrl+shift+z to invoke the macro, the two characters are replaced by ë. If I don't call the macro then nothing is changed. This version of the macro includes a translate table that covers most European languages and a few odd symbols such as © which are useful to me, but it's trivial to modify for any specific purpose or preference. It could certainly be made faster, but is designed for simplicity and clarity. It would be nice if: 1) somebody could compile a master list of translations, so that users could subset as they needed; 2) it could be generalised to work with spreadsheets and presentations etc - at the moment it only works in text documents. To go further would require far more time than I have available (it's not the doing it's the learning how!) Hope it's useful...
Created attachment 44886 [details] macro to insert accented character
Nice thing to see at least a workaround. I append some language specific diacritics here, as I believe that it makes more sense to define them based on the language to use and the available keyboard to write (then have a big list with all the possibilities). See also http://www.umich.edu/~langres/diacritics/french.html for language-specific common diacritics. Characters suitable for replacement on an English keyboard: one keystroke (these are preferred): ` ' / \ two keystrokes (shift + ...): ~ : < > rather difficult to type: ^ German characters A Ää O Öö U Üü s ß Romanian characters A ĂăÂâ I Îî S Şş T Ţţ French characters A ÀàÂâÄä C Çç E ÈèÉéÊê I ÎîÏï O ÔôÖö U ÙùÛû ... By the way: # Is there any other word using 'ç', except for 'françai...'? # Is there any other word using 'ù' except for 'où'? ... Of course, most European languages use diacritics, so this list could be enhanced. (See also previous web-address for Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Swedish.) Hungarian and Slavic languages are missing.
Discoleo, as far as I'm concerned, to my problem it's a solution, not a workaround. The only improvement that really interests me is having it available for spreadsheets too, but I don't care enough to make the necessary changes myself. Thanks for your character suggestions, but the macro already has over 120 diacriticals, including as far as I know all those in Hungarian and Romanian (although since I speak neither of those languages, I can't be certain). I suggest you examine the downloaded file, or even install the macro on your system and try it! I should say that I do not intend to do any further work on this - it's available for those who want to use it, and that's it as far as I'm concerned. Ref Ç it's in many other words eg façon, rançon etc. Ref Ù I can't think of another French example although I'm sure one exists, but it is also used in Italian eg virtù. There's no cost to having it in the list so it's there.
AS->redi2go: Thanks for your patch. Unfortunately it does not fix the real problem mentioned by this task. The office already knows all the stuff you describe here. It already have a full featured accelerator configuration .. further a generic shortcut handler exists. The missing part is that there is no UI to bind special characters to shortcuts. There is a dialog showing special characters ... and there is a dialog for shortcuts ... but they doesn't work together. The idea: it should be possible to define shortcuts directly within the special character dialog. So this issue address the missing UI part. On the other side your macro will be an usefully extension. You should pack it as an extension (OXT file) and place it on "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions" especialy in the extension repository "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions_repository". Best Regards AS
AS 'The office knows all the stuff you describe here'. Thanks for the laugh. If the office knows so much why have I and thousands of other users been struggling for years to insert special characters when there's been a perfectly good solution available all along? Being a diligent sort of person, I spent an hour or so searching through a few pages of google hits trying to find out how to write an extension. None of them gave me any useful information. Eventually I found Chapter 5 of the OO Developers Guide. This is completely incomprehensible to someone who needed a day to learn enough OO and Basic to write a 10-line macro. So I've decided to follow the lead shown by all the oo bug reports I've filed or supported. I've put it on an enhancement list and given it a target date for completion of 'none'. That should sort the matter nicely. Meanwhile, for anyone living in the real world who wants a copy of this invaluable little macro, I've put some corrected code on my website http://www.billhibbert.com with accompanying notes, and anyone who wants it can go and get it...
AS->redy2go: > Thanks for the laugh. If the office knows so much why have I and > thousands of other users been struggling for years to insert special > characters when there's been a perfectly good solution available all along? Sorry - It was not my intention to annoy you ! But it's true. Nobody can understand why a so easy task wont be fixed in time. The problem behind: there are ~50-60 developers on OOo. A "normal" developer has ~ 200-300 issue in it's intray. Some developers (mostly project or co leads) has more then 500 issues. And believe me - all of them are important enough to be fixed asap. On the other side - the day has 24 hours only :-) The problem with these task is - it does not have a high prio (compared with other tasks). E.g. vista support, crashes etcpp are more important - sorry. So these task wont be fixed within an OOo 2.x timeframe ... excepting somehwere of the community will be able to fix it. What has to be done to fix this task realy ? The special characters dialog has to be rewritten. It has to show the set of special characters and must provide the possibility to define shortcuts there directly. If you know somewhere which is able to write a new VCL dialog in C++ - tell me its name. I will give you all support I can give (CVS handling, QA step etcpp). Your question regarding "extension development" ... You should try these: "http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extensions_Packager". Regards Andreas
AS->redi2go: ... I've forgot .. further communication about your macro should be done via email as@openoffice.org ... not here inside this issue. THX.
My vote for enhancing the Tools > Customize > Keyboard dialogue so that it supports a) shortcuts for an arbitrary character to be inserted (Writer) b) shortcuts with the AltGr key (all modules). Please note that both is already possible, if you configure the accelerator configuration file manually. (Those who understand German may read on http://www.ooowiki.de/TastaturAnpassen .) So "only" a suitable GUI is missing or the enhancement of the existing Tools > Customize > Keyboard dialogue is needed, respectively. Given the number of votes, CC'ed persons, duplicates, and user requests on the mailing lists on this (missing) feature on the one hand, and the already-implemented core technology for this feature on the other hand, we shouldn't delegate this to an Extension. It should be able to use shortcuts with the AltGr key in the "vanilla" OOo, and it should be possible to use shortcuts for inserting special characters.
... but: is this really a problem within OpenOffice? or isn't it an operating system issue? on Linux, there's no such need: I type Compose ' a and get á, Compose " U -> Ü, Compose / L -> Ł, Compose b a -> ă, Compose ' r -> ŕ... you name them, you learn them... other example? take the small Nokia N810, it's the module of the operating system taking care of handling keyboard input that allows the user to write national characters. keep the 'chr' key pressed and hit the 'a' four times to get the fourth accent available on the 'a'... a bit clumsy, but it also works in all programs. IMHO it really should not be a concern of the application developer to fill in the blanks left by the operating system... I think this is a MSWindows issue, not OpenOffice's. so if you are affected by this issue, you might consider running OpenOffice on Linux... just a hint. :) (obviously the 'Compose' on my keyboard is marked 'Caps Lock'!)
mbayer->mfrasca: Well, I AM running OOo on Linux and I can tell you that nonetheless there IS a demand for this feature (as also the 34 votes show). Recommending the change of the O/S is without any use to those that can not liberally choose it (just think enterprise users). Also, the use of keyboard tools, like MS' keyboard layout creator, might not be allowed anywhere. Then, there are thousands of characters available via Insert -> Special Character that you can not type in with your keyboard, even if you learned how to use the compose key. Plus, the feature requested is already implemented; you can define keyboard shortcuts for special characters by editing the config file manually. Thus, all we need is an enhancement of the Tools -> Customize -> Keyboard GUI.
Once you set out to write a cross-platform application, it does become the concern of the application developer to fill in the blanks left by the operating system, or the application doesn't do its intended job in the concerned platform. Even if it were a MSWindows issue, it would still be an OpenOffice issue too, as long as OpenOffice is intended to run on Windows. As for considering running OpenOffice on Linux, I've done so for many years, but still *have to* use Windows for most tasks, as do a fair number of people, for reasons other than ignorance or bloodymindedness on their own part. I see the smiley, but can't help getting frustrated. If you know of a general method for getting special characters via sensible keyboard actions in platforms where this doesn't work in OpenOffice today, please tell us all. BTW, I wonder if the special characters features in Linux you're talking about, e. g. getting ß by pressing AltGr+S - S don't depend on a few things like locale settings, keyboard layout etc. etc.
gudmund - 'If you know of a general method for getting special characters via sensible keyboard actions in platforms where this doesn't work in OpenOffice today, please tell us all.' I thought this was exactly what the macro I posted last May did...
@redi2go: I must have either missed that, or it's due to my being on the tenth (twentieth?) OOo installation since last May, some of the last ones being special things for dealing with the infamous OOXML format, and the next upcoming being for hopefully getting to terms with OOo shortcomings in regular expressions. Depending on macros for performing standard tasks isn't a solution, much as I appreciate the effort. Will download and try it at any rate, thanks for the effort! (I notice my last post got posted twice. This was probably triggered by my reloading/updating the page in Firefox, sorry!)
ok, points taken... but just partially... About the frustration: I also have to use windows at office, but then I'm lucky I have to write just in Dutch or English, where the accents are rarely needed... the way Compose works is not dependent on the locale settings, as far as I know. admittedly, there are keys I cannot produce with Compose-key1-key2, like some Vietnamese vocals topped by two or three accents, or all Arabic characters. ... Even if I think I understand frustration and the need for a better solution than something which is only available on Linux and is not at all complete, I still think this should be solved somewhere in the operating system, not in each of its client applications. In my opinion, doing so (offering this option in each client of the OS) leads to a configuration nightmare. I don't know if there are any extensions to Windows (nor to Linux) than enable us to configure our keyboards in a more complete way, but if I were a windows user (or if I needed typing Vietnamese), I would look for something like that, I would not ask openoffice to provide me with something which will only work within openoffice and which I would miss in abiword, emacs and vi. until I find such a tool, I would use your macro, very probably. ciaociao.
There's no sign in sight one would have to worry about a configuration nightmare, at least as far as Windows is concerned. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but the chances of Windows getting a global ability of *easily* typing any manner of characters any time soon, look exceedingly remote. It would probably have to go FOSS before that happens. Apart from this, with all the characters possible in e. g. UTF8, there would always be a large amount of characters that wouldn't be practicable to access with keyboard combos without switching keyboard layout. So the bug would still stand, it seems. Switching keyboard layouts (yes, it's possible in Windows - if an Admin/root has installed the corresponding language packs, activated this that and whatnot etc.) and then dealing with unfamiliar key placements, is precisely what fixing this bug would help us avoid. Since no really useful *standard* solution seems to exist for at least Windows (no, using Windows Charmap just isn't practical enough, and there most probably are no other *standard* solutions), it has to be solved some other way. As for missing features between apps - that happens all the time. Just take having to use different spellcheck dictionaries for different apps, forcing you to duplicate and triplicate work. Sad, but hard to avoid unless all the involved app makers and the OS makers start talking to each others and standardize.
gudmund, redi2go, mbayer: Please don't use these task for pure discussion. Do so on an more appropriate channel e.g. dev@framework.openoffice.org. THX.
I'm using OOo Writer in both Linux and Windows. In Windows, I have been using also MS Word, in which I can use Ctrl+Alt+Num- (minus) by default to type the m-dash. In Linux, it is easy to assign the m-dash to a Compose Key (I'm using the left & right Win_key+hyphen) so that it works not only in OOo but also in the web browser, etc. My problem is that as I work in different system environments and with two or three different word processors (more and more exclusively with OOo, however), and it's a bit inconvenient having to remember the different key combinations in each of them. (In Linux, it's easy to remember that the Win-key is the compose key, because no other function has been assigned to it.) Now it would be nice if I could assign an m-dash macro e.g. to the key combination Ctrl+Alt+Num- in the Windows version of OOo Writer - this seems to be no option, since there are only a few key combinations available, as far as I know. I had to assign em-dash to Ctrl+m. There should be more options for key combinations, I think, as has been argued in this thread already.
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We're on OOo 3.0 now... maybe it's time to move this out of OOo Later and back into OOo sooner? Also, maybe this needs to be moved out of Word Processor and into OOo Base so that its functionality is included in Calc, and Presentation as well?
corigo, i completely agree: "Also, maybe this needs to be moved out of Word Processor and into OOo Base so that its functionality is included in Calc, and Presentation as well?"
taking over from as
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Reset assigne to the default "issues@openoffice.apache.org".
Created attachment 86435 [details] Paragraph symbol, dots between words inserted while copying text Queried recipient if she (has very limited vision) could hear incomplete file (what I sent you) on her computer. These symbols are undesirable in newsletter I produce, but text is readable by normal-vision individuals. These extra characters appeared suddenly while transcribing above document, wish them Removed. Thanks for your help.