Issue 49920 - spadmin won't save fax command for cups printers
Summary: spadmin won't save fax command for cups printers
Status: CLOSED DUPLICATE of issue 49980
Alias: None
Product: Writer
Classification: Application
Component: printing (show other issues)
Version: OOo 1.1.3
Hardware: PC Linux, all
: P3 Trivial (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Joost Andrae
QA Contact: issues@sw
URL:
Keywords: needmoreinfo, oooqa
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2005-05-26 16:05 UTC by bjohnsonoo
Modified: 2005-05-31 09:50 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: DEFECT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


Attachments
screenshot of my test-configuration (110.01 KB, image/png)
2005-05-30 18:36 UTC, lohmaier
no flags Details

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Description bjohnsonoo 2005-05-26 16:05:18 UTC
On it's own, fax4cups provides a convenient method to send fax jobs to remote
faxmodems through the cups system

It also provides a convenient method via it's web gui to track completed fax
jobs but .. it also shows up as a printer in openoffice but it doesn't work

I can change it's type to a fax device in spadmin, but spadmin won't save the
command (it comes up blank if I exit spadmin and start spadmin again).  Stangely
enough, when I enter the fax command in spadmin for the fax4CUPS device, and
while the command is still there (ie before I exit spadmin), I can successfully
fax the spadmin test page using the "Test Page" button.

Adding a new fax device in spadmin and assigning it the lpr command to invoke
fax4CUPS works.

I'm trying to avoid listing 2 printers in openoffice (one that doesn't work) by
modifying the cups printer rather than adding another printer through spadmin 

I've had this problem on 2 different machines running Fedora Core 3 with the
Fedora supplied version of openoffice.org 1.1.3

I've removed the rpm on a third Fedora Core 3 machine and installed 1.1.4
obtained from the openoffice.org site.  On this machine, the CUPS printers do
not even show up in spadmin (they show up in oowriter though).

Since fax4cups works with efax, hylafax, and mgetty+sendfax (according to them),
this concept could be universally applied to all *nix based machines running
cups .. which these days is most of them

Additionally, using the cups web gui for a fax spool tracking system is an added
user convenience.
Comment 1 michael.ruess 2005-05-26 16:20:02 UTC
Reassigned to JA.
Comment 2 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-26 16:33:52 UTC
Really all that is needed is a way to send the phone number to CUPS as a print
option .. but that doesn't seem to correspond to oowriter's concept of how fax
devices should be handled
Comment 3 philipp.lohmann 2005-05-26 16:52:53 UTC
The fedora core 3 version contains a downport of CUPS code from the 2.0
codeline; sadly this was downported at a time when CUPS in 2.0 was still incomplete.

Question: does the command line for the fax queue vanish in the regular OOo1.1.4
version, too ?
Comment 4 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-26 18:46:01 UTC
I have removed the fedora rpm of 1.1.3 on one of the Fedora Core 3 machines and
have installed 1.1.4 from openoffice.org.

spadmin no longer shows ANY of the CUPS printers, so I am unable to test whether
the command line assigned to a CUPS printer in spadmin is retained.

I have confirmed that the psprint.conf files on the 1.1.3 machines retain the
command line even though it does not display in spadmin.  However, the command
line stored in psprint.conf seems to be ignored by both spadmin and oowriter
Comment 5 lohmaier 2005-05-26 22:52:25 UTC
bjohnsonoo: It is totally irrelevant what printing-system you use for faxing.
Faxing always works by running a command and pass a postscript-file to that command.

The same goes for printing. OOo always generates postscript that is printed.

"Cups support" only means that OOo reads the configuration of the printers from
the system installation.
In OOo 1.x you can still use cups to print even when the printers are not
listed. You can optionally create the printer using the printer-specific ppd to
have access to the printer specific options and features (page-margins,
print-modes, etc.). Just point spadmin to the directory where the ppds reside
(for a local setup usually in /etc/cups/ppd) and you're done. 

Why don't you just run spadmin, click "Create new printer" choose the option for
fax and follow the instructions?
Comment 6 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-27 00:26:55 UTC
Why don't you just run spadmin, click "Create new printer" choose the option for
fax and follow the instructions?


I have done that (said so in the first post).

I am not looking for A solution, I'm looking for a BETTER solution

From my review of efax, hylafax, and mgetty+sendfax, I think they ALL have
usability issues in a LAN environment with mobile users and fax modems that are
also used as dial-in ppp access.

I think fax4CUPS on top of mgetty+sendfax IS the best modem (fax AND data)
solution for linux.

It's one current downside is it's interaction with openoffice .. or should I say
openoffice's interaction with it.

ALL I want to do is modify a CUPS printer in spadmin so that it appears to
openoffice as a fax device and can have a command assigned to it.

This is exactly what you suggest, but prevents having 2 printers for the same
fax device listed in the openoffice printer lists (one that works and one that
does not)

Do I need to do a feature comparison of the fax software options or can we
simply agree that what I ask SHOULD be possible and try to get one system that
actually DOES it.


Comment 7 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-27 03:20:32 UTC
Why don't you just run spadmin, click "Create new printer" choose the option for
fax and follow the instructions?


I have done that (said so in the first post).

I am not looking for A solution, I'm looking for a BETTER solution

From my review of efax, hylafax, and mgetty+sendfax, I think they ALL have
usability issues in a LAN environment with mobile users and fax modems that are
also used as dial-in ppp access.

I think fax4CUPS on top of mgetty+sendfax IS the best modem (fax AND data)
solution for linux.

It's one current downside is it's interaction with openoffice .. or should I say
openoffice's interaction with it.

ALL I want to do is modify a CUPS printer in spadmin so that it appears to
openoffice as a fax device and can have a command assigned to it.

This is exactly what you suggest, but prevents having 2 printers for the same
fax device listed in the openoffice printer lists (one that works and one that
does not)

Do I need to do a feature comparison of the fax software options or can we
simply agree that what I ask SHOULD be possible and try to get one system that
actually DOES it.


Comment 8 lohmaier 2005-05-27 17:26:53 UTC
I'm still not clear chere your problem is.

You CAN use fax4cups. You can use *anything* that accepst a postscript document.
You don't need to set-up a printer and then convert it to a fax - why would you
do that?

So please answer the question:

/Why/ do you want to reconfigure a *printer* to a fax?
Comment 9 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-28 03:16:22 UTC
/Why/ do you want to reconfigure a *printer* to a fax?



Not sure how else I can explain this ..

Printers created through CUPS automatically show up in the oowriter printer
list.  This is really great when you consider the ability of CUPS to
automagically share printers through the LAN.

fax4CUPS allows you to create a printer device in CUPS that reroutes the print
job through the LAN to the machine that has the faxmodem and provides a good web
gui for tracking fax spooler jobs.

The fax4CUPS device automatically shows up in the openoffice printer list AS A
PRINTER !!!

So if I make a new printer in spadmin, there will still be the original listing
from CUPS.

So I would prefer to change the original pinter listing in spadmin (rather than
make a second printer) so that only ONE entry for the faxmodem shows in the
openoffice printer list.
Comment 10 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-28 03:54:04 UTC
Another advantage of NOT creating a second printer entry in spadmin:

a mobile user with a laptop will continue to see the second spadmin created
printer even when not on the LAN (and the device is not available), the CUPS
printer however will only show up in the printer list when the user is on the
LAN that hosts the device

Comment 11 lohmaier 2005-05-29 21:14:37 UTC
Now I got the problem. But you already filed a new issue dealing with this properly:

Autodetection of cups-fax-queues (issue 49980)

So I'll mark this one as duplicate.

(There won't be any changes for this in the 1.1.x branch and OOo 2.0 already
supports detection/getting the configuration from cups - it even doesn't allow
the creation or modifying the printer configuration with spadmin so issue 49980
is the only solution that will work)

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 49980 ***
Comment 12 lohmaier 2005-05-29 21:18:13 UTC
closing issue.

OOo saves the printer-command for fax-devices, but it doesn't allow the
modification of "system-printers" (printers that are not created via spadmin but
offered in the print dialog for convenience/easy acces).

This leads to problems when the system printers is not a printer-que but a
fax-queue. -> see issue 49980
Comment 13 lohmaier 2005-05-29 21:23:38 UTC
reopen issue.
It is possible to modify the printer-command for system printers..
Comment 14 lohmaier 2005-05-29 21:28:58 UTC
resolving worksforme.

It is possible to reconfigure the system printers' commands.

You only have to name it accordingly (with the "<>") If the Fax appears as
"<Fax4Cups>", you have to create a fax-solution in OOo and Name it "<Fax4Cups>".

This way you'll only have one entry in OOo's print dialog (still "<Fax4Cups>"),
but now attached to the fax-command.

-> worksforme
Comment 15 lohmaier 2005-05-29 21:33:06 UTC
closing issue.
Comment 16 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-29 22:18:25 UTC
Is redefining printers with "<>" documented somewhere?

I'm unable to test at the moment but will do so at the earliest convenience

Issue 49980 is related but not the same.  

This issue us that I have not been able to do this manually.

The other issue it a feature enhancement request so that doing it manually on
each workstation is not required

Comment 17 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-30 17:23:24 UTC
The cups fax/printer name is faxonmainserver

Running spadmin and creating a new printer named "<faxonmainserver>" results in
a second printer showing up in spadmin and oowriter named "<faxonmainserver>"

Running spadmin and creating a new printer named "faxonmainserver" results in a
second printer showing up in spadmin and oowriter named "faxonmainserver_1"

Comment 18 lohmaier 2005-05-30 18:36:18 UTC
Created attachment 26701 [details]
screenshot of my test-configuration
Comment 19 lohmaier 2005-05-30 18:38:41 UTC
You must use the original OOo, not the RedHat-version.

See the screenshot for an example.

You should not enter the quotes as well, only the angle-brackets, as it appears
in the print-dialog.
Comment 20 lohmaier 2005-05-31 00:06:20 UTC
from issue 49980:

> I can tell that the dialog box labelled "Druckerverwaltung" is the spadmin
> program.

Yes.

> I notice that the CUPS printers do not show up in your version.  They
> do  show in the Fedora 1.1.3 version that I have.  Aren't they supposed to?

Don't you pay attention to what you're told?
On IRC and in this issue you were told numerous times that RedHat modifies OOo,
that RedHat uses a different way to access the printers configuration.
pl explained that they backported the cups-support from 2.0 (at a stage where
this was not complete).

On IRC I must have written 8 times or more that you should try with the original
OOo since RedHats version differs in the way it handles printers (and spadmin).

If you don't understand what the information you're given means, then please ask
for clarification, but I'm getting tired of writing the same stuff over and over
again.

> The dialog box labelled "Drucken" is the print dialog from OpenOffice?

Yes.

> So it is Fedora that enabled the listing of CUPS printers in spadmin and 
> vanilla Openoffice is not able to do that?

OOo 1.1.x doesn't support the automatic configuration of cups printers. That's
right. And because of that they won't appear in spadmin (since OOo cannot tell
what ppd and settings it should use since it cannot "ask" cups). OpenOffice.org
2.0 will support getting the configuration from cups.

> Is there a config file anywhere for spadmin?

erAck told you on IRC. And you tried the configuration only to see that the
redhat version ignores the settings found therein.
The user-configuration is in ~/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/user/psprint/psprint.conf
But since RedHat changes the default installation directories as well you'll
have to find out yourself where it should be placed.
Comment 21 bjohnsonoo 2005-05-31 03:18:32 UTC
>> I notice that the CUPS printers do not show up in your version.  They
>> do  show in the Fedora 1.1.3 version that I have.  Aren't they supposed to?

>Don't you pay attention to what you're told?
>On IRC and in this issue you were told numerous times that RedHat modifies OOo,
>that RedHat uses a different way to access the printers configuration.
>pl explained that they backported the cups-support from 2.0 (at a stage where
>this was not complete).

I'm sorry.  This question was in my first post and still nobody has said yes or
no.  I have figured out by what I've seen in your screen capture that the answer
is no.

I'm also afraid I did not know whether pl's statement was referring to oo.org
2.0 or CUPS 2.0 .. or what that statement might imply in practical terms.  I
still don't.

>On IRC I must have written 8 times or more that you should try with the 
>original OOo since RedHats version differs in the way it handles printers (and
>spadmin).

On my first post on this issue I pointed out that I have done that.  I guess I
should have been more specific in asking for clarification that it was not
expected to show the CUPS printers in spadmin.

At that time I was under the impression that I could modify the CUPS printers in
spadmin and couldn't figure out how to do that if they weren't even listed in
spadmin.  Since then I've been able to piece together a better idea of what is
expected to happen.


>If you don't understand what the information you're given means, then please >ask
>for clarification, but I'm getting tired of writing the same stuff over and >over
>again.

Again I must apologize for not knowing enough to be able to ask for
clarification of specific points satisfactorily.  Truly I do not understand the
oo.org system for dealing with fax printers, I've had trouble finding
information that I could use successfully, and I've had trouble finding anyone
that had any knowledge of the fax system backend.

It has come to light that part of the problem is that I'm using a customized
version of the software that nobody else is (ie the Fedora Core 3 rpm of 1.1.3)

>> Is there a config file anywhere for spadmin?

>erAck told you on IRC. And you tried the configuration only to see that the
>redhat version ignores the settings found therein.
>The user-configuration is in ~/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/user/psprint/psprint.conf
>But since RedHat changes the default installation directories as well you'll
>have to find out yourself where it should be placed.

Again sorry.  I thought that was a printer config file for oo.org.  I was unable
to get anyone to confirm whether it was also used by spadmin

Unfortunately replacing the fedora rpm with version 1.1.4 from openoffice.org
takes some effort to complete the reconfiguration (desktop menus no longer work,
moving of dictionaries, reconfiguring for template locations, etc) and I've
trying to avoid testing it on my work machines.  I started it on my home machine
but since have had a power flicker and it no longer turns on (I'm working on
debugging it).

Hopefully I can continue testing with oo.org 1.1.4 on that Fedora Core 3 machine
and will not find something else that prevents it from worling as expected.

Then I will feel confident enough to attempt it on my laptop and the
workstations at work.
Comment 22 philipp.lohmann 2005-05-31 09:50:03 UTC
cloph: no need to get uncivil.

bjohnsonoo: The "<>" are normally only a mark for printer queues detected via
either "lpstat -t" or "lpc status". There is nothing to prevent you from naming
a printer containing "<>"; these were just chosen since they are not usually
used for printer queues as they would have to be escaped on the command line.
This is why in a vanilla OOo you see one "Generic Printer" and possibly some
"<...>" printers, ideally one for each system print queue. Changing the
properties of an automatic queue by creating one that has the same name was not
intended; if this happens to work it is pure coincidence.

The command line for the automatically added print queues is always "lpr -P
queue_name" if the queue was found with lpc status and "lp -d queue_name" if the
queue was found with lpstat. There is no way to configure an automatically added
print queue.

If you want a configurable printer add one in spadmin and you can edit its
command line as all the other properties. Which is what cloph explained before.

As for automatic fax queue detection in CUPS systems you filed issue 49980, so i
think we can indeed close this one as duplicate.

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 49980 ***
Comment 23 philipp.lohmann 2005-05-31 09:50:45 UTC
closing