Issue 54320 - Paragraph Style's Default settings
Summary: Paragraph Style's Default settings
Alias: None
Product: Writer
Classification: Application
Component: code (show other issues)
Version: OOO 2.0 Beta2
Hardware: PC All
: P3 Trivial with 12 votes (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: AOO issues mailing list
QA Contact:
Depends on:
Reported: 2005-09-07 14:11 UTC by khirano
Modified: 2017-05-20 11:18 UTC (History)
24 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: DEFECT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---

text's line ends are not aligned very well (50.03 KB, image/jpeg)
2005-09-07 14:13 UTC, khirano
no flags Details
desired default settings (155.56 KB, image/jpeg)
2005-09-07 14:16 UTC, khirano
no flags Details
This patch changes the default setting of punctuation and adjust. (2.10 KB, patch)
2005-09-11 23:31 UTC, curvirgo
no flags Details | Diff
A set value of default is changed by the locale setting here. (60.39 KB, image/png)
2005-09-11 23:35 UTC, curvirgo
no flags Details

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Description khirano 2005-09-07 14:11:09 UTC
First impression is very important when you first open documents with 2.0.

With the current Paragraph Style's Default settings, CJK text's line ends are
not aligned very well - ugly. (please take a look at the screenshot I will attach)

Ja community would like to request that Paragraph Style's Default settings
should be changed.

Current Default:
1. Asian Typography - Line change - Allow hanging punctuation is *ON*.
2. Alignment - Options is *Left/Top*.

Desired Default:
1. Asian Typography - Line change - Allow hanging punctuation is *OFF*.
2. Alignment - Options is *Justified*.
Comment 1 khirano 2005-09-07 14:13:59 UTC
Created attachment 29370 [details]
text's line ends are not aligned very well
Comment 2 khirano 2005-09-07 14:16:23 UTC
Created attachment 29371 [details]
desired default settings
Comment 3 stx123 2005-09-07 19:23:20 UTC
Thanks for submitting the issue. The screenshots are very helpful to understand
the problem. I'm sure it will undergo serious evaluation. But please refrain
from setting the target milestone if you don't the commitment from a developer
or development group to solve the issue.
Greetings, Stefan
Comment 4 curvirgo 2005-09-11 23:28:17 UTC
In Japanese native language project, the patch to correct the setting of default
was made.
It is operated only for the language that corresponds by the locale setting.
Comment 5 curvirgo 2005-09-11 23:31:05 UTC
Created attachment 29475 [details]
This patch changes the default setting of punctuation and adjust.
Comment 6 curvirgo 2005-09-11 23:35:29 UTC
Created attachment 29476 [details]
A set value of default is changed by the locale setting here.
Comment 7 khirano 2005-09-12 00:56:48 UTC
khirano ---> jeongkyu and pplwong

What do you think about this change of "Paragraph Style's Default settings"?
Your comments would be greatly appreciated.
Comment 8 pplwong 2005-09-12 01:47:59 UTC

Thanks for telling me about this bug. I totally agree with you on this.
Comment 9 y-catch 2005-09-18 18:36:20 UTC
I would like to comment from the viewpoint of the market of Japanese
word-processor. I agree this desired default.

A lot of Japanese word-processor has the same default with the requested one.

* Microsoft Word2003
 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF
 - Alignment - Options is Justified

* Microsoft Word2000
 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF
 - Alignment - Options is Justified

* Microsoft Word97
 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF
 - Alignment - Options is Left/Top
* Justsystem Ichitaro 2005
 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF
 - Alignment - Options is Justified

OOo doesn't have the above settings. When OOo opens word-doc file, OOo applies
its own settings. For example, Word-doc file:Allow hanging punctuation is OFF
--> OOo:Allow hanging punctuation is ON. This causes the different display with
Word in many cases.

OOo can not open Ichitaro files. But StarSuite/StarOffice can open Ichitaro
file. I think we will have the same problem when we open Ichitaro file by SS/SO.

Just-systems Inc(Ichitaro developer) has announced that they will distribute
OASIS OpenDocument Import/export plug-in for Ichitaro.
I think we will have the same problem more often.

Meanwhile, there will be another problem when we change the default. There will
be  possibility that the display will be different when OOo files made by the
old version are opened.
For example, Old OOo file:Allow hanging punctuation is ON --> New OOo:Allow
hanging punctuation is OFF. I still can not find the way to solve this problem
regarding compatibility of OOo.

But I agree with the change of the default.Because if we change the default
promptly, we can lessen the compatibility problem.
Comment 10 hongmei 2005-09-19 09:57:02 UTC
I checked ko locale, just now. I also agree on opinions mentioned above.
Comment 11 khirano 2005-09-24 19:14:38 UTC
I think CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) agree on this issue now.
Note that this issue has got 24 votes so far.

And the patch has been provided.

Can you (tm or st?) set Target Milestone?
Comment 12 thorsten.martens 2005-09-28 14:17:16 UTC
TM->MH: Please have a look, thanks !
Comment 13 Martin Hollmichel 2005-09-28 16:51:28 UTC
reassign for evaluation
Comment 14 maho.nakata 2005-09-29 12:39:36 UTC
According to Andre Joost, adding hdu in Cc:
might help us. Thanks hdu again, you are our hero.

I asked MH 2005.09.28 at NLC Party
at Museum Garden about this issue,
`this is on the list' so hopefully this will
be fixed for 2.0.
Comment 15 andreas.martens 2005-10-05 13:18:59 UTC
If we implement the patch, old documents and documents from other Office users
will look different. This is not acceptable. But we'll find another possibility
to change the default for Asian countries without damaging old documents. This
fix has to be tested very serious.
My preferred target is OOo2.0.2.
But there's an easy work-around: 
Everybody who needs different default should create a template and define this
document as default template. Every new document will be created with the wished
Comment 16 khirano 2005-10-05 14:07:14 UTC
Thank you, ama, for taking care of this issue.
Thanks for setting the target milestone.
It is good to know that it WILL be fixed in the better way you suggested.
And thanks for the easy work-around.
Comment 17 tora3 2005-10-05 22:47:23 UTC
We could start to incorporate this issue in time for 2.0.

Quick Evaluation:

 - A Writer document prepared with OOo 1.1 or earlier will be showed 
   in a slightly different way with to-be-revised OOo 2.0 if the following 
   two conditions are true at the same time:

    - a user did not touch a check box for the wrapping punctuation 
      on the 1.1

    - a punctuation character is about to be placed at the end of line 
      on the 2.0

   Otherwise, the text layout will not be changed at all. 

   Even the layout gets changed slightly, it could be acceptable.
   - that's my thoughts, though -

   An OOo 1.1 Writer document, for example, with an inactivated check 
   box for hanging characters - the default setting of 1.1 is activated - 
   would be displayed on the to-be-revised OOo 2.0 in an exactly same way 
   as OOo 1.1 does. Because once a user touch the check box for it, the 
   setting that the user has specified will be included in either content.xml 
   as an auto style or styles.xml as in the stylist. Therefore, OOo 2.0 
   can layout texts properly following the setting.

 - A Writer document prepared with a to-be-revised OOo 2.0 will be 
   treated in the similar way as mentioned above by the OOo 1.1.5 or 

 - Importing a Word document and exporting a Writer document into 
   Word file should be evaluated soon.

 - The change of the default setting would be made for all language 
   variants of OOo regardless of language. Otherwise, the text layout 
   could not keep consistency among language variants of OOo. 

 - In general, this change of the default setting will have no impact 
   on the European variants of OOo.

 - No change should be made at this moment for Calc, Impress, Draw, 
   or a text of drawing objects.

 - For a long term solution, this kind of settings could be moved 
   from a source code to a configuration file.

 - In the near future, something regarding this change should be 
   mentioned in the online help.

 - In the next major version, 1.1 compatible mode for this change 
   can be considered.

Any comments?
Comment 18 tora3 2005-10-07 16:16:36 UTC
According to the results of the evaluations conducted by some 
Japanese users, Only one of two default settings could be changed 
at this critical moment.

The patch, punctuation_and_adjust.patch, attached in this issue 
attempts to change two default values of the Standard paragraph settings: 

 (a) Alignment - from Left/Top to Justified - (should NOT be changed)

 (b) Allow hanging punctuation - from Enabled to Disabled (can be changed)

A small unexpected behavior has been found regarding change of (a) Alignment.
A text layout might be changed dramatically if the text is intended for 
listing items and has a manual break in the middle by entering Shift + Enter.

For instance:

 Name: xxx (Shift + Enter)
 Address: yyy

could be displayed in the following way when the patch is applied without 
any modifications - imagine letters are in Asian characters -

 N  a  m  e :  x   x   x 
 Address: yyy

That could not be acceptable. 

So, please use only one part of the patch, for (b) Allow hanging punctuation.

For locale / language sensitivity, some Asian specific typography options 
including an option (b) appear when a check box of "Enabled for Asian language" 
in the dialogue of Tools > Options > Language Settings > Languages is activated. 

We can choose one on two options:

 (i) Modification for (b) will be done regardless of locale / language.

 (ii) Modification for (b) should be applied for only Asian localization.

Theoretically, an option (i) would be a better choice because of 
no difference should be made among localized variants. 
Localization can be considered as a choice of its face, not a 
change of behavior. 

In this moment - no more delay of release schedule is demanded - 
the option (ii) could be acceptable.

Comment 19 tora3 2005-10-09 14:02:28 UTC
It seems we would need a little bit more complex solution and it could take 
several months to discuss with Writer team and users and to integrate it.

 (1) For 2.0 - An attempt of a quick solution seems not to help perfectly.
     Changing a default value regarding an option "Allow hanging characters"
     issue 54320

 (2) For 2.0.x
     Pushing hanging characters within right margin.
     Achieving more precious text layout for justification.
     issue 36313 and 36408

 (3) For OOo later
     Separating a list of hanging characters from a list of forbidden characters 
     that should not be at the beginning of line.
     Allowing users to specify these three lists:
       - forbidden characters that should not be at the beginning of line.
       - forbidden characters that should not be at the end of line.
       - hanging characters that could be placed beyond right/bottom margin
     These lists should be a part of paragraph style. 

Comment 20 Oliver Specht 2006-02-09 14:10:50 UTC
The patch can not be applied "as is".
The function _InitCore() set the default attributes for the application. 

The changes of the attributes have to be done in SwDocShell::[Sub]InitNew();

The hanging punctuiation setting seems to be only of interest for the locales
ja, ko, zh-CN, zh-TW. The can be set for all new documents. 

The remaining question is if the Adjustment should be changed for these locales
too or not.

Changed issue type to defect and changed target to OOo 3.0
Comment 21 Oliver Specht 2006-06-20 13:43:16 UTC
Target adjusted
Comment 22 Mathias_Bauer 2006-12-07 13:13:38 UTC
adjusting component
Comment 23 Martin Hollmichel 2007-09-10 13:36:54 UTC
move target to 3.x according
Comment 24 Mathias_Bauer 2007-09-28 08:30:39 UTC
Just to avoid misunderstandings: in case somebody provided an accepted patch the
target of course can be set back to 2.4 or 3.0. The target "3.x" expresses that
we (os) don't plan to work on this issue ourselves before 3.0 is released.
Comment 25 sawamoto 2008-05-09 09:51:51 UTC
There is a misunderstanding.

In case of using fixed-width fonts, Microsoft Word2007 arranges characters by
hanging punctuation.

Some Japaneses want to keep the current action of 2.4.
Comment 26 kamataki 2008-05-09 13:49:24 UTC
Hi sawamoto. 

I have you be interested in this Issue, and thank you. 

Word and Writer have the gap of the function. It is this Issue to be near to a
design of Word in current Writer, and it is the setting that it suggested.
Because it was performed in the following mailing lists, look at the argument of
this Issue. MLNo.8283 serves as a reference in particular. Come to ML or the OOo
Q&A( if you need an argument.

I write the same content in Japanese as follows.



かOOo Q&Aへお越しください。注: すでにリンク切れのコンテンツがあります。
Comment 27 Marcus 2017-05-20 11:18:01 UTC
Reset assigne to the default "".