Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 54320
Paragraph Style's Default settings
Last modified: 2017-05-20 11:18:01 UTC
First impression is very important when you first open documents with OpenOffice.org 2.0. With the current Paragraph Style's Default settings, CJK text's line ends are not aligned very well - ugly. (please take a look at the screenshot I will attach) Ja community would like to request that Paragraph Style's Default settings should be changed. Current Default: 1. Asian Typography - Line change - Allow hanging punctuation is *ON*. 2. Alignment - Options is *Left/Top*. Desired Default: 1. Asian Typography - Line change - Allow hanging punctuation is *OFF*. 2. Alignment - Options is *Justified*.
Created attachment 29370 [details] text's line ends are not aligned very well
Created attachment 29371 [details] desired default settings
Thanks for submitting the issue. The screenshots are very helpful to understand the problem. I'm sure it will undergo serious evaluation. But please refrain from setting the target milestone if you don't the commitment from a developer or development group to solve the issue. Greetings, Stefan
In Japanese native language project, the patch to correct the setting of default was made. It is operated only for the language that corresponds by the locale setting.
Created attachment 29475 [details] This patch changes the default setting of punctuation and adjust.
Created attachment 29476 [details] A set value of default is changed by the locale setting here.
khirano ---> jeongkyu and pplwong What do you think about this change of "Paragraph Style's Default settings"? Your comments would be greatly appreciated. :)
khirano, Thanks for telling me about this bug. I totally agree with you on this.
I would like to comment from the viewpoint of the market of Japanese word-processor. I agree this desired default. A lot of Japanese word-processor has the same default with the requested one. * Microsoft Word2003 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF - Alignment - Options is Justified * Microsoft Word2000 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF - Alignment - Options is Justified * Microsoft Word97 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF - Alignment - Options is Left/Top * Justsystem Ichitaro 2005 - Allow hanging punctuation is OFF - Alignment - Options is Justified OOo doesn't have the above settings. When OOo opens word-doc file, OOo applies its own settings. For example, Word-doc file:Allow hanging punctuation is OFF --> OOo:Allow hanging punctuation is ON. This causes the different display with Word in many cases. OOo can not open Ichitaro files. But StarSuite/StarOffice can open Ichitaro file. I think we will have the same problem when we open Ichitaro file by SS/SO. Just-systems Inc(Ichitaro developer) has announced that they will distribute OASIS OpenDocument Import/export plug-in for Ichitaro. I think we will have the same problem more often. Meanwhile, there will be another problem when we change the default. There will be possibility that the display will be different when OOo files made by the old version are opened. For example, Old OOo file:Allow hanging punctuation is ON --> New OOo:Allow hanging punctuation is OFF. I still can not find the way to solve this problem regarding compatibility of OOo. But I agree with the change of the default.Because if we change the default promptly, we can lessen the compatibility problem.
I checked ko locale, just now. I also agree on opinions mentioned above.
I think CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) agree on this issue now. Note that this issue has got 24 votes so far. And the patch has been provided. Can you (tm or st?) set Target Milestone?
TM->MH: Please have a look, thanks !
reassign for evaluation
According to Andre Joost, adding hdu in Cc: might help us. Thanks hdu again, you are our hero. I asked MH 2005.09.28 at NLC Party at Museum Garden about this issue, `this is on the list' so hopefully this will be fixed for 2.0.
If we implement the patch, old documents and documents from other Office users will look different. This is not acceptable. But we'll find another possibility to change the default for Asian countries without damaging old documents. This fix has to be tested very serious. My preferred target is OOo2.0.2. But there's an easy work-around: Everybody who needs different default should create a template and define this document as default template. Every new document will be created with the wished properties.
Thank you, ama, for taking care of this issue. Thanks for setting the target milestone. It is good to know that it WILL be fixed in the better way you suggested. And thanks for the easy work-around. :)
We could start to incorporate this issue in time for 2.0. Quick Evaluation: - A Writer document prepared with OOo 1.1 or earlier will be showed in a slightly different way with to-be-revised OOo 2.0 if the following two conditions are true at the same time: - a user did not touch a check box for the wrapping punctuation on the 1.1 - a punctuation character is about to be placed at the end of line on the 2.0 Otherwise, the text layout will not be changed at all. Even the layout gets changed slightly, it could be acceptable. - that's my thoughts, though - An OOo 1.1 Writer document, for example, with an inactivated check box for hanging characters - the default setting of 1.1 is activated - would be displayed on the to-be-revised OOo 2.0 in an exactly same way as OOo 1.1 does. Because once a user touch the check box for it, the setting that the user has specified will be included in either content.xml as an auto style or styles.xml as in the stylist. Therefore, OOo 2.0 can layout texts properly following the setting. - A Writer document prepared with a to-be-revised OOo 2.0 will be treated in the similar way as mentioned above by the OOo 1.1.5 or earlier. - Importing a Word document and exporting a Writer document into Word file should be evaluated soon. - The change of the default setting would be made for all language variants of OOo regardless of language. Otherwise, the text layout could not keep consistency among language variants of OOo. - In general, this change of the default setting will have no impact on the European variants of OOo. - No change should be made at this moment for Calc, Impress, Draw, or a text of drawing objects. - For a long term solution, this kind of settings could be moved from a source code to a configuration file. - In the near future, something regarding this change should be mentioned in the online help. - In the next major version, 1.1 compatible mode for this change can be considered. Any comments?
According to the results of the evaluations conducted by some Japanese users, Only one of two default settings could be changed at this critical moment. The patch, punctuation_and_adjust.patch, attached in this issue attempts to change two default values of the Standard paragraph settings: (a) Alignment - from Left/Top to Justified - (should NOT be changed) (b) Allow hanging punctuation - from Enabled to Disabled (can be changed) A small unexpected behavior has been found regarding change of (a) Alignment. A text layout might be changed dramatically if the text is intended for listing items and has a manual break in the middle by entering Shift + Enter. For instance: Name: xxx (Shift + Enter) Address: yyy could be displayed in the following way when the patch is applied without any modifications - imagine letters are in Asian characters - N a m e : x x x Address: yyy That could not be acceptable. So, please use only one part of the patch, for (b) Allow hanging punctuation. For locale / language sensitivity, some Asian specific typography options including an option (b) appear when a check box of "Enabled for Asian language" in the dialogue of Tools > Options > Language Settings > Languages is activated. We can choose one on two options: (i) Modification for (b) will be done regardless of locale / language. (ii) Modification for (b) should be applied for only Asian localization. Theoretically, an option (i) would be a better choice because of no difference should be made among localized variants. Localization can be considered as a choice of its face, not a change of behavior. In this moment - no more delay of release schedule is demanded - the option (ii) could be acceptable.
It seems we would need a little bit more complex solution and it could take several months to discuss with Writer team and users and to integrate it. (1) For 2.0 - An attempt of a quick solution seems not to help perfectly. Changing a default value regarding an option "Allow hanging characters" issue 54320 (2) For 2.0.x Pushing hanging characters within right margin. Achieving more precious text layout for justification. http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/18738/concept01.png issue 36313 and 36408 (3) For OOo later Separating a list of hanging characters from a list of forbidden characters that should not be at the beginning of line. Allowing users to specify these three lists: - forbidden characters that should not be at the beginning of line. - forbidden characters that should not be at the end of line. - hanging characters that could be placed beyond right/bottom margin These lists should be a part of paragraph style.
The patch can not be applied "as is". The function _InitCore() set the default attributes for the application. The changes of the attributes have to be done in SwDocShell::[Sub]InitNew(); The hanging punctuiation setting seems to be only of interest for the locales ja, ko, zh-CN, zh-TW. The can be set for all new documents. The remaining question is if the Adjustment should be changed for these locales too or not. Changed issue type to defect and changed target to OOo 3.0
Target adjusted
adjusting component
move target to 3.x according http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Target_3x
Just to avoid misunderstandings: in case somebody provided an accepted patch the target of course can be set back to 2.4 or 3.0. The target "3.x" expresses that we (os) don't plan to work on this issue ourselves before 3.0 is released.
There is a misunderstanding. In case of using fixed-width fonts, Microsoft Word2007 arranges characters by hanging punctuation. Some Japaneses want to keep the current action of OpenOffice.org 2.4.
Hi sawamoto. I have you be interested in this Issue, and thank you. Word and Writer have the gap of the function. It is this Issue to be near to a design of Word in current Writer, and it is the setting that it suggested. Because it was performed in the following mailing lists, look at the argument of this Issue. MLNo.8283 serves as a reference in particular. Come to ML or the OOo Q&A(http://oooug.jp/faq/) if you need an argument. http://www.freeml.com/openoffice/8129/latest I write the same content in Japanese as follows. Japanese: sawamotoさん。このIssueに興味をもっていただき、ありがとうございます。 WordとWriterには機能の違いがあります。現在のWriterでWordのデザインに近いのが、こ のIssueで提案した設定です。このIssueの議論は以下のメーリングリストで行われました ので、ご覧ください。特にMLNo.8283が参考になります。もし、議論が必要でしたら、ML かOOo Q&Aへお越しください。注: すでにリンク切れのコンテンツがあります。
Reset assigne to the default "issues@openoffice.apache.org".