Issue 65006 - The issue management for votes is faulty
Summary: The issue management for votes is faulty
Status: CLOSED DUPLICATE of issue 22519
Alias: None
Product: Infrastructure
Classification: Infrastructure
Component: Bugzilla (show other issues)
Version: OOo 2.0
Hardware: All All
: P3 Trivial (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: issues@www
QA Contact: issues@www
URL:
Keywords: oooqa
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2006-05-02 16:14 UTC by raindrops
Modified: 2008-06-14 07:16 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: ENHANCEMENT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


Attachments

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this issue.
Description raindrops 2006-05-02 16:14:38 UTC
It would be safe to assume that issues get higher priority based on the following-

(a) Impact on the product (OOo).
(b) Number of votes given by users.
(c) "first-come-first-served" basis (i.e., older issues taken up first). 
(d) Defects would be taken up before enhancements.

This issue will explain how this principle is defeated because of faulty
management of the issuetracker.

Different aspects are discussed in this single issue for continuity's sake. 
If you want, I will split them into separate issues.

1. Faulty tallying of votes:

Issues are supposed to be prioritized by the number of votes they get. But the
thanks to a faulty management of the issue tracker, votes are not collected
properly, as explained below:

Many issues are found to be duplicate of other issues and closed.  Some are
copied into other issues and then closed. In many of such cases, the closure is
done a long time after initialization. In the meantime, the issue attracts a lot
of votes. When the issue is closed, however, these votes are not transferred to
the other issue.

Once a visitor votes for an issue, he wouldn't keep a watch on it, and if that
issue is copied into a new one (or closed as a duplicate), he is not likely to
transfer his vote to the new issue. 

IssueZilla certainly does not do this automatically.

Let me illustrate this with an example:

Issue 2977 had 59 votes. Issue 33851 has only 37. 

So, assuming that these votes are mutually exclusive, issue 33851 should have
59+37=96 votes as on today; making this one of the top-ranking issue. Against
that, we have a paltry 37 votes there!

So, when copying an age-old issue into a new one, we spoil its ranking by
splitting the votes.

2. Loss of age-weightage:

In some cases, issues are combined into a new issue. All the older issues are
closed.

This is a dangerous practice because the problem appears to be freshly raised.
Also, the original "observed in-" information is reoplaced in a recent version.

In our example, issue 2977 is >4 years, but the transformed issue appears only 9
months old!

So, all other things being equal, issues older than that will now have their
turn ahead of this one!

3. Enhancement vs defect:

The issue handlers classify a problem as enhancement as "defect" only if OOo
does NOT "work as designed". 

Compare that with some internationally recognized standards:

>> www.isixsigma.com defines a "defect" as (a) Any type of undesired result is a
defect, or (b) A failure to meet one of the acceptance criteria of your customers. 

>> ISO 9000 defines a defect as "nonfulfilment of a need for a stated or
intended use". Further, it defines that this need can be stated or implied.

The problem with such classification is that the urgency to tackle the problem
is lost when it is identified as an enhancement.

There are many issues where the user may lose data, yet it is identified as an
enhancement. 

An example is Issue  2977 or Issue 33851, where a defective behavior can
overrite data; resulting in unforeseen changes in the spreadsheet. This issue is
treated as an "enhancement".

Another example is when the behavior is not defined under some circumstances.
Such issues are classified as "enhancement" even if the user stands to lose data!
Comment 1 Rainer Bielefeld 2006-12-19 17:08:21 UTC
This is more or less a DUP of Issue 22519. 

@raindrops:
For details that might not be covered by Issue 22519, please open a new issue!

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 22519 ***
Comment 2 Rainer Bielefeld 2006-12-19 17:08:39 UTC
.
Comment 3 raindrops 2006-12-20 17:24:08 UTC
Well, that issue talks about adding all votes when issues are declared
"Duplicate". This issue describes TWO other issues clearly stated. 

In other words, this issue is NOT a full duplicate of that other issue.

If 1/3rd of this bug is already reflected somewhere else, why close this entire
issue? It will unnecessarily raise the number of bugs in the system! Just deal
with the rest! Rephrase if necessary, and split it if you want.

The responsibility of the user is to prove his point with data. If something is
not clear to you, you should ask for clarification WITHIN a reasonable period.
IMO 7 months is too long a time. 

I got this response after a gap of 7 months. Now am I MARRIED to this issue? Do
I have to take care of it till death do us part?? Do you really expect all users
to monitor their issues lifelong?

After a long delay, the handler should own the issue himself, rather than
throwing it back to the initiator again: The initiator may have walked away
after all that time!

Even if he sticks around, he may no longer have the required supplementary data.
 In that case you would close the issue, thus nullifying the effort put by the
reporter.

And suppose you don't get anyone to split this issue. What then? Will you close
this issue? Who's the loser in that case?
Comment 4 Rainer Bielefeld 2006-12-21 05:56:37 UTC
We can not handle different problems within one issue. The first enhancement
request is a DUP  of an other issue, so I will close this issue again after I
limited the subject to the "votes problem". For the resting listed problems
please see my following comments.

@raindrops 
New issue for every problem! Please divide your requests (as you offered in your
report) into separate issues, so that decisions concerning each of your requests
can be found separately.
 I do not see good prospects that your points 2 and 3 might be considered in
near future.

1. Faulty tallying of votes
---------------------------
duplicate of issue 22519.

2. Loss of age-weightage
------------------------
I don't believe that "seniority" has much importance for the developers when
they decide what issue should be fixed for next. If you believe that
consideration of this  could improve the bug fixing process, please state that
plausible in a new issue.

3. Enhancement vs defect:
-------------------------
I do not see that difference to common use of those terms. If you believe that a
new definition could improve the bug fixing process, please state that plausible
in a new issue.

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 22519 ***
Comment 5 ace_dent 2008-05-17 21:15:30 UTC
The Issue you raised has been marked as 'Resolved' and not updated within the
last 1 year+. I am therefore setting this issue to 'Verified' as the first step
towards Closing it. If you feel this is incorrect, please re-open the issue and
add any comments.

Many thanks,
Andrew
 
Cleaning-up and Closing old Issues
~ The Grand Bug Squash, pre v3 ~
http://marketing.openoffice.org/3.0/announcementbeta.html
Comment 6 ace_dent 2008-05-17 23:18:17 UTC
As per previous posting: Verified -> Closed.
A Closed Issue is a Happy Issue (TM).

Regards,
Andrew
Comment 7 raindrops 2008-05-18 08:43:51 UTC
Andrew, I doubt whether you ever read through this issue. Probably this is a
software-generated post attached to ALL old issues.

The "sweeping-under-carpet" has reached a new low.

I am absolutely disgusted with how Bugzilla is misused in dealing with the
problems. It has sunk so low that now it is nothing more than forum posting.

The issuezilla is meant to detect problems and track them to closure. 

While the users do the first part, the Sun/OOo staff should do the rest.
So why ask the originator to raise another issue? Just clone the topic into a
new issue and start off discussion on it!

The Issuezilla management policy (DOES IT EXIST??) needs to be changed.
Comment 8 ace_dent 2008-05-18 22:16:34 UTC
Dear 'raindrops',

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I will try to answer some of your
important concerns as briefly as possible. I also want to assure you that it was
not my intention to cause you any distress!

(1) Andrew, I doubt whether you ever read through this issue. Probably this is a
software-generated post attached to ALL old issues.

- Correct (partly). The first stage - stirring up User feedback- was automated
based on reasonable criteria. In this case, you had over 1 year to argue against
the 'resolved' status and change it to 're-opened'. The second stage (as you can
see) will require QA time to go through every response and individual issue. The
reason step 1 was automated, is that there are thousands (~5k issues) which are
old and gathering dust. It is much more efficient if the original reporter takes
responsibility for their Issue and closes it if possible, to minimize this
effort. It is about distributing rather than centralizing the task load.

(2) The "sweeping-under-carpet" has reached a new low.

- This is the exact opposite. The point of my actions is to bin old and
irrevelant Issues and highlight long outstanding ones. Remember, even when an
Issue has been closed it will always be available, so your comment just doesn't
stand.

(3) While the users do the first part, the Sun/OOo staff should do the rest.
So why ask the originator to raise another issue? Just clone the topic into a
new issue and start off discussion on it!

- And here is the key point(s)... Sun (company) does not equate to OOo
(community). OOo doesn't have staff (as such), just keen volunteers such as
myself - and yourself! You have just as much responsibility as a custodian for
the bug report you raised, as any other member of the OOo community. If you
bothered to raise an Issue, it is reasonable to assume you may be the only
person in the world who cares about it. I also want you to note that I have
acted as an individual, just keen to try and improve the current IssueTracker
situation.

(4) The Issuezilla management policy (DOES IT EXIST??) needs to be changed.

- There are fairly clear guidelines and policies. This brings us back to your
original Issue. Reviewing rainerbielefeld's QA (spot-on as usual), this Issue is
clearly a duplicate and breaks the principle policy of IssueTracker: One Problem
One Issue. This is will be Closed.

Please fell free to email me if you have any further questions, to avoid
treating IssueTracker like a forum...

Regards
Andrew

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 22519 ***
Comment 9 ace_dent 2008-05-18 22:17:30 UTC
Closed.
Comment 10 raindrops 2008-06-14 07:16:05 UTC
Well, let us assume a scenario:

Someone stops me at office and tells me, "Your tie is askew and your fly is open."

Is it logical for me to say-

"Unfortunately you clubbed two unrelated issues!! The only way I will close my
fly is you will have to tell me again. I know what's wrong, but policy is policy!"

You see, there is a risk that the guy will not bother again.
He would not be so passionate and caring about my closing the fly.

Worse, he will simply go around and tell others what a lout I am.

So a policy-maker in OOo community has to wake up to this problem and explain to
the front-ending QA guys NOT to bounce valid inputs in the name of policy.
Just thank the public for bothering at all, and take care of the ISSUE at hand!