Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 79468
Cannot save empty (i.e. just created) document
Last modified: 2017-05-20 10:03:13 UTC
When I create a new document, I cannot save it right away. Why would anybody want this? Because sometimes it's easier to assign a document name and path upfront, in order to not having to bother with this while doing the actual work.
Not a defect ! Behaviour works as expected and nothing is broken. If someone want's to save a new, empty document, the save/as entry from thefile-menu can be used. If someone doesn't like the file-menu, a save/as button can be added to the toolbar !
Didn't know about the Save As workaround, but this only makes matters worse (sort of), because now OOo's behavior is even more inconsistent ;-) Why?: If I work on a document and stick with the same file name throughout the document's life cycle, I can always use Save, and never have to use Save As. Because Save As means: Save it with a different file name. So why should I use Save As here? I don't want to change the file name - I want to assign one in the first place. So this is inconsistent, because OOo treats empty and non-empty files different, although in reality there is no difference. And (most important): From the user's point of view this is all the same task: Save a file to disk. So please enable the Save command - it wouldn't do any harm to anybody ;-)
Reopening. Didn't know about the Save As workaround, but this, in a way, only makes matters worse, because it makes OOo inconsistent. Why? If I work on a document and stick with the same file name throughout the document's lifecycle, I always use Save, and never have to use Save As. Because Save As means: Save a COPY of the current document, using a DIFFERENT name. But in our case here I want to assign a file name in the first place, so there's no reason why I should use Save As. So this is inconsistent, because OOo treats the saving of empty and non-empty files different, although in reality there is no difference. And (most important): From the user's point of view this is all the same task: Save a file to disk. So please enable the Save command - it wouldn't do any harm to anybody :-)
Sorry about the double post!
Again, it works as designed and has never worked in a different way before. So this is definitely not a defect, because nothing is broken compared to previous versions. Btw. New documents can't be saved, because they don't have a filename. A "save" would rise the save/as dialog, asking for a filename. Just have a look at other applications like Word, Wordpad, Notepad,....creating a new document, followed by a save command raises a save/as dialog.....So feel free to add a save/as button to the toolbar,... it wouldn't do any harm to anybody too :-)
closed as invalid
Reopening. If you insist that "defect" means regression (compared to a previous version), I changed the type to "enhancement". I think you didn't get my point yet. Look at the applications you mentioned: See what happens when you create a new document, then press Ctrl+S: The Save As dialog pops up. And what happens in OOo: Nothing! This is what I'm suggesting: Let the users save the empty document in the very same way they're used to do (pressing Ctrl+S or clicking the disk symbol). You can't be serious in suggesting to have two separate save icons in the toolbar! One for "save an empty document" and one for "save a non-empty document".
TM->requirements: have a look !
My 2 cents: First of all let's compare usage of save and save-as -- how often do you use save-as while editing the text? Once? Twice? For me save is used like 1000:1 (or better) comparing to save-as. Now, let's say you started editing a file -- save it. Oh, I said it already --> "SAVE it". Not save-as. Here again, I doubt that save-as is used more often than "save" (I doubt this is even close). But it is also possible for someone (*) to save the file and then start editing it. In OOo it is technically impossible -- you have to type space (and delete it later) and save, or save-as (I didn't know it and used the first method). And the question is -- why you as user have to do such unusual things (they are unusual by estimating frequency of those actions). Because... save is disabled. And what is the benefit of disabling save? ...? Disabling save for empty document is creating artificial problems because somebody had to put extra code into OOo to disable/enable it according to document state. Artificial problem that now the user has to handle. And this is a defect (long standing defect is not a feature just by measuring its age), maybe mild (because there are workarounds) but still a defect. (*) saving first and editing later is better for focusing on work, because on first save you have to specify file placement and name, so this workflow edit, edit, enter file name, choose directory, edit, edit... is not that efficient as this one enter file name, choose directory, edit, edit, edit, edit... because as you can see in the latter case editing is not interrupted.
File - Save As...