Issue 89920 - Objects (Fontwork, Movie and Sound) only selectable via Ctrl-Click 'cause it's inserted "in background" by default
Summary: Objects (Fontwork, Movie and Sound) only selectable via Ctrl-Click 'cause it'...
Alias: None
Product: Writer
Classification: Application
Component: editing (show other issues)
Version: OOo 3.0 Beta
Hardware: PC All
: P3 Trivial with 16 votes (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: michael.ruess
QA Contact: issues@sw
Keywords: regression, usability
: 90324 93639 93689 94517 94884 95031 97056 102472 105396 108029 (view as issue list)
Depends on:
Reported: 2008-05-25 11:03 UTC by jbf.faure
Modified: 2013-08-07 14:44 UTC (History)
10 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: DEFECT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---

test file with fontwork object (29.35 KB, application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text)
2008-05-25 11:05 UTC, jbf.faure
no flags Details

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Description jbf.faure 2008-05-25 11:03:43 UTC
Steps to reproduce :
- open a new empty text document
- open toolbar drawing and click on button fontwork
- insert some fontwork object
- deselect the fontwork object and save the file
- try to select the the fontwork object : does not work

thing interesting :
- add a frame in the page : the fontwork object can be select but only one 

The same file open by OOo 2.4 works well.
Comment 1 jbf.faure 2008-05-25 11:05:47 UTC
Created attachment 53913 [details]
test file with fontwork object
Comment 2 jbf.faure 2008-05-25 13:59:09 UTC
Selection of fontwork works by using ctrl+click but it is not what online help 
says (/text/shared/guide/fontwork.xhp ; [par_idN106B5]).
Comment 3 Regina Henschel 2008-05-25 16:18:05 UTC
The fontwork object is set to background (don't know why) and therefore shows
this behavior. Goto Format > Arrange and click on "To Foreground" and the
fontwork object behaves normal.
Comment 4 jbf.faure 2008-05-25 19:55:19 UTC
Thanks Regina but menu Format > Arrange > To Foreground is grayed until I can 
select the fontwork object. I can do it only by ctrl+click.

And it is strange that OOo 2.4 allows to select the fontwork object and OOo 
3.0 beta does not.

Is it a new operation mode for OOo 3.0 ? 
Comment 5 michael.ruess 2008-05-26 08:33:53 UTC
Yes, it is correct that this is a new behavior. It was not possible to select
text which was written over such an object "in background" (see issue 28595).

MRU->AMA: may it be possible that it is recognized, if there is text written
over an object or not? I mean, it is not really intuitive, that such an object
is only possible to select via Ctrl-click...
Comment 6 jbf.faure 2008-05-26 08:56:01 UTC
Ah, ok. 
So instead of being in the behaviour, defect is in online help (cf. comment nĀ° 
Online help should say that fontwork objects are set by default in the 
background and can be selected by ctrl+click.

Thanks for the explanation.
Comment 7 Regina Henschel 2008-06-03 20:40:52 UTC
*** Issue 90324 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 8 safway 2008-06-03 21:47:52 UTC
I sure hope the online help gets corrected.  There is no mention in this issue
or in issue 28595 that there are plans for it being corrected.
Comment 9 williereid 2008-08-02 20:05:09 UTC
Help at OOo-DEV m29 still does not mention ctrl+click to re-select fontwork.
Comment 10 michael.ruess 2008-09-09 13:57:45 UTC
*** Issue 93639 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 11 michael.ruess 2008-09-10 08:26:29 UTC
*** Issue 93689 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 12 michael.ruess 2008-09-10 08:28:28 UTC
Changing the summary a little, so that it matches a bit more the real problem.
A fontwork object can only be selected by Ctrl-Click once it has been deselected
after insertion.
Comment 13 hagar_de_lest 2008-09-29 21:53:12 UTC
Is it possible to make clear if this issue is now about correcting the help file
or to change this new behavior (that seems rather logical to me)?
Comment 14 Regina Henschel 2008-10-01 09:51:42 UTC
*** Issue 94517 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 15 mmenaz 2008-10-11 20:50:28 UTC
That's new behaviour is really bad. A) I find it not intuitive B) you like or
not, people are used to M$toys behaviour, and Word behaves with "click to select"
The only effect you will have with this behaviour is people upset and frustrated
because Writer is broken and does not let you select objects.
There are few experiences more frustrating for a person than a object you can
see on the screen and you can't select clicking/double clicking on it.
Comment 16 michael.ruess 2008-10-16 10:26:46 UTC
*** Issue 94884 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 17 michael.ruess 2008-10-17 10:43:53 UTC
*** Issue 95031 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 18 zorbait 2008-10-26 09:51:30 UTC
This bug is very dangerous. I work in a school (>400 children) and I want to
upgrade openoffice 2.4.1 to 3.0, but this bug has stopped me. Fontwork are VERY
important for children and due to this bug we have to use 2.4.1 and wait for a
In all wordprocessors we can select objects with a click (without CTRL): a
normal user cannot understand why in Openoffice this is not possible. He will
think that this is a bug (and this is really a bug). The problem is in OO, not
in the help!

Alla schools in the worlds will have problems due to this bug: please correct it
in the 3.0.1. This is a very bad pubblicity for OO.
Comment 19 cno 2008-11-20 19:06:57 UTC
IMO it's a great feature: all difficulties with pictures and objects in the
background are solved now :-) Sure a lot of our users will be happy.

Is a tooltip for one or two second, when the mouse is over an object, indicating
that Ctrl-Click is needed, an idea?
Comment 20 zorbait 2008-11-20 20:25:35 UTC
> Is a tooltip for one or two second, when the mouse is over an object, 
> indicating that Ctrl-Click is needed, an idea?

NO! Because users don't read tooltips, they simply click and click and click
like Word and cannot understand why doesn't work.
So they think that Openoffice doesn't work and don't use it...

Usability is very important if we want that normal users work with openoffice.
In every office suite an image is selectable with a click: why OO cannot has
this function? 
This is a very dangerous bug... children and schools are too important for the
future of OO.
Comment 21 noop 2008-11-26 17:25:31 UTC
The same occurs after inserting a sound from the gallery. The sound object can
only be selected via Ctrl-click. This does not occur in 2.4.2 where you can
select the sound object with a standard single-click.

Comment 22 michael.ruess 2008-12-09 10:49:35 UTC
*** Issue 97056 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 23 jardak 2009-04-05 09:11:53 UTC
In ooo310m7 still exist. Yes, this "new feature" is problem for czech teacher 
too. But solution is so easy: 
In ooo 2.4 when was fontwork inserted, default wrap was "Wrap Trough". But in 
3.0 - ooo310m7 after adding fontwork, defaul wrap is "Page Wrap". After 
changing "Page Wrap" to "Wrap Trough", then i can work with fontwork in the 
same way as in ooo 2.4.
Please, change default "Page Wrap" to "Wrap Trough" for fontwork.
Comment 24 Martin Hollmichel 2009-04-06 16:46:43 UTC
@mba, 17 votes, several duplicates, we should fix this for 3.2
Comment 25 Mathias_Bauer 2009-04-06 17:38:58 UTC
As we are currently refactoring the drawing layer access in Writer completely
and this refactoring most probably will not be finished in 3.2, I will support
target 3.2 only if the fix doesn't slow done the refactoring. Means: if it
either is a low hanging fruit or if the fix does not use code that currently is

Oliver, please comment.
Comment 26 Oliver Specht 2009-04-07 08:49:04 UTC
The rework of drawing objects (using drawing layer pictures and OLEs instead of
Writer's implementation) has no influence on this issue. 

I'm not sure if it is a good idea to put the fontwork object to background by
default. I also have no preference for wrap through vs. page wrap. The user
interface normally prevents the combination of 'in background' and 'page wrap'
when "To background" is used.

The selection of objects in background with (Ctrl+)Click should be improved.
Instead of selecting objects in the margin with simple click the related
function (SwFEShell::IsObjectSelectable()) should check if there is text above
the background object and select the background object if it doesn't find text
near the position of the click also without Ctrl. 

If all that doesn't help a Ctrl+Click makes sense and it should be documented in
the help.

->od: Could you please improve SwFEShell::IsObjectSelectable()
Comment 27 stefan.baltzer 2009-04-24 09:59:08 UTC
Adjusted summary. Movie and Sound objects are also affected.
Comment 28 stefan.baltzer 2009-04-24 10:49:55 UTC
Add myself on C/C.
Comment 29 eric.savary 2009-06-03 14:36:10 UTC
*** Issue 102472 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 30 seanlano 2009-06-04 00:32:22 UTC
Could we have an option to turn this ctrl+click select off? I think it's not a
bad feature to have, but I think some users wouldn't want it. 
Comment 31 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann 2009-09-10 14:36:43 UTC
Unfortunately, I have to re-target this issue to the next release due to limited
Comment 32 Regina Henschel 2009-09-28 17:20:28 UTC
*** Issue 105396 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 33 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann 2009-12-29 11:41:03 UTC
fix of the code in progress in cws sw33bf02:
- Correction of the default attributes for the insertion of objects. The
combination of "in background" and "page wrap" does not make sense objects.
- Improvement of the selection of objects in background. Objects in background
are in general behind text. Thus, the "Ctrl-Click rule" has been implemented in
order to make it possible to place the cursor into the text which is before such
objects - please have a look at issue 28595. But, this "Ctrl-Click rule" needs
improvement. A Ctrl-Click will only be needed, if there really is text before an
object in background.

For the documentation of the "Ctrl-Click" function to select object in
background I will submit a separate issue.
Comment 34 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann 2009-12-29 11:46:56 UTC
FYI, issue for adjusting documentation is issue 107984.
Comment 35 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann 2009-12-30 14:08:59 UTC
fixed in cws sw33bf02:
- change set bf47f5b06091 for improving the selection of objects in background
- change set 487cb0fdc6d2 for adjusting the object's attributes:
-- fontwork, movie and sound objects are now in foreground with wrap through
Comment 36 eric.savary 2010-01-02 14:28:03 UTC
*** Issue 108029 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 37 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann 2010-02-04 13:26:52 UTC
OD->MRU: Checked in internal installation set of cws sw33bf02 - please verify.
Comment 38 blasiusit 2010-02-07 20:48:10 UTC
I downloaded openoffice 3.2 rc5 and the bug is still present.
Fontworks are placed in background and I need to put them in foreground manually.

In our school we have some interactive blackboards controlled by an active
stylus (like a tablet pc). We cannot use fontworks because a single person
cannot manage them: a student use the stylus for work with the fontwork, but a
second a student has to press the CTRL button on the pc's keyboard!!!

We are still working with OO 2.4!!!
Comment 39 cno 2010-02-08 07:08:54 UTC
@blasiusit: as you can read by the info on top, target is 3.3 Expected release
around June:
3.2.0 is about to be ready now.

Maybe in your situation you can work with dev. snapshots?
I do quite some work with them, and of corse come along bugs. But maybe it helps?
Comment 40 blasiusit 2010-02-08 21:14:21 UTC
> target is 3.3 Expected release around June:

Ah, I'm sorry for the mistake!

I donwloaded OOo-Dev_DEV300_m71_LinuxIntel_install_en-US from the download page,
but the bug is still present also in the development version.
Comment 41 cno 2010-02-08 21:25:00 UTC
Ah, you're right. According to EIS, it is not yet integrated in m71
Sorry that I didn't think of that with my previous post.
Comment 42 michael.ruess 2010-02-10 13:33:35 UTC
Verified fix in CWS sw33bf02.
Comment 43 michael.ruess 2010-04-20 16:59:33 UTC
Checked in DEV300m76.