Issue 42733

Agree.

"Asian" languages in OOo are actually just Chinese, Japanese and Korean (CJK),
which better described as "East Asian languages" (more focus, less confusion).

Suggestion:

a) Rename Asian to either CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) or Veritical writing
systems.

b) Split CTL into at least the following groups:
i) Semitic Languages [Or writing systems]; or Right To Left languages.
ii) Indus Valley languages [ Or writing systems];
iii) Mongolian and related languages [ Or writing systems][OOo does not
currently support these writing systems.];
iv) Bostrophedon writing systems.  [Which OOo does not currently explicitly
support.];

xan

jonathon

I think there are two separate issues:

a) what term should be used to describe the script groupings that OOo currently has?

b) how should scripts be grouped?

This issue is a).  I think the point jonathon is making is related to b). I
completely agree that the current grouping is not ideal.  I would argue that the
best solution is to be able to specify font independently for each script (see
issue #72735).  However, I agree that a good intermediate step would be to split
CTL into Indic and right-to-left writing systems.

FT: We already had very long discussion about CTL. But since it is mentioned in
full length (not abbreviated) on the same page we agreed to use CTL on this page.
Asian Language is a common term (already used by MS) for CJK so again we decided
to use this term.
And replacing CTL with something like "Arabic, Hebrew, Indic, Mongolian and
Sout-East Asian" is not an option due to string length.

I would like to insist on this issue.

CTL is an abreviation of a technical term, not recognised or understood by CTL
users. Our experience is that it is very confusing. As for languages as Thai or
Khmer configuration of OOo must be done for correct usage (otherwise it is very
difficult to type in the local language), all user, at the beginning of their
experience, must go through figuring out that CTL is important. They cannot do
it without expert help.

If it is not possible to put a longer explanation at the tic box itself, it
could be a good idea to include one next to it.

MS does write an explanation (event if not perfect, not even gramatically
correct) that is still technical, but better than CTL.

Note in the attachment that MS uses "East Asian" for CJK. This would be a
positive change, even this late in the process.

CTL (Right-to-left, Indic and SE Asian) could a short explanation if it fits.

FT: Reassigned and target set.

.

I agree that more self-explanatory wording would be better, but that the English
text will not be changed for OOo 2.0.

I suggest that the localizations for OOo 2.0 change any "CTL" texts to fit their
own locale, that is, localize the UI string to be immediately clear to users of
your language version of OOo.

For example, 'CTL font' --> 'Thai font'
That's the beauty/purpose of localization---you control what _your_ users read.

Classic user question from a linux user forum:-
http://linux.thai.net/wwwboard/gen/msg02467.php

Please help.  I am using OS X and want to type and edit Thai text.
I recently installed OpenOffice 1.1.2.  I launch the program and go to.

Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages

I have Asian languages support 'Enabled' checked.  But in Asian pulldown
menu, I do not see 'Thai' as a listed language.

I understand that I can type and edit Thai using OpenOffice.  Can someone
please advise of what steps I should take to make it work?

Liz->Samphan, thanks for the example from the Linux forum. BTW, "CTL
(Right-to-left, Indic and SE Asian)" is a good suggestion, but won't fit in the
space we have, due to space necessary for localization.

I also inquired if all languages might simply be listed in one list box (without
the need for geographic or writing system explanation in the label), but was
told that the three separate list boxes are necessary for functional reasons. 

Still working on it. In the meantime, I wish users would use the Help. 
In OOo Help it says: 
"Currently, OpenOffice.org supports Hindi, Thai, Hebrew, and Arabic as CTL
languages.
Enable CTL support using Tools - Options - Language Settings - Languages."

uhmmm,

The fact that the help names exclusivelly some languages as supported is
dangerous, as it will be obsolete very quickly.. As a matter of fact it is
already obsolete, OOo supports Khmer, Tamil and Kannada, and will soon support
other indic languages.

Conceptually it would be better for the users to have separate boxes for
"right-2-left" and for "indic and S.E. Asian", because they will directly
identify with one of them. Putting them together is making the UI follow the
technology below, instead of the grouping in which the users would easily fit
themselves.

The Thai localized version of Word 2003 does exactly what liz suggests: it uses
the term "Thai and other languages" (in Thai) for CTL.

Reassigning to FT for future consideration. I don't see another solution other
than the localization differentiation at this time, but perhaps a new design
solution is necessary as some of the input suggests. I cannot fix this with just
a string change because of the grouping/functionality.

FT: Yes, I agree. We rather should use "Complex Script" instead. Something for
the new language lead.

Reset assignee on issues not touched by assignee in more than 2000 days.