Issue 9437

I agree that there appears to be no way to change the default bullet
style.  I have hunted thru the OOo helps and played around a little
with style setups.  Have you?  I cannot see this bullet that you
explain, a large black circle with a 10 inside.  My "default" bullet
is a small black dot.  So...I am wondering if we have a clue here, cuz
you seem to  have a different "default bullet" than I do.  So, some
questions (while hoping to get to the bottom of this issue, or at
least figure out how to move it along):

1.  What is your font?
2.  Is the bullet you see in the choices shown when you go to the
Format menu, and select "Numbering/Bullets, then the Bullets tab, or
the Graphics tab (this one scrolls)?
3.  Have you tried to go to "Numbering/Bullets, then the Options tab?
 Select Numbering=Bullet, Character Style=Bullet Symbols, then click
on  that little box with the "..." in it next to Character.  When I do
this, I  see my bullet, it has the Open Symbol font selected, and the
bullet shows with the numbers 0x2022 under it.  There are other
bullets in that list of characters in there.  What do you see here? 
Is your "default bullet" in there somewhere?  If so, please guide me
to it.  

It did not seem that any bullet "stuck" with my doc after I selected
it...but I admit I am pretty green at some of this stuff.  You have a
different bullet than I, so I am thinking that somehow, there is a way
to set a default...we just gotta figure out what it is.  I am willing
to dig into this if you can provide me with a few details to help me
along with it.  I have seen some squirrelly stuff in my travels too
for this issue too, so I am wondering what I will see if I try to see
what you see.

Also, I am running the English version of 1.0.2.  We may have
differences due to that.  Which language do you run?  If English, will
you upgrade to 1.0.2?  I am running my tests on win98se.

As this issue is getting old, may i suggest upgrading to 1.1beta2 and 
changing the issue to reflect the new version?

Hi,

I was never able to see the issue described.  Although a recent mail
message discusses it:

http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=655607&listName=discuss

Skoorb, have you ever seen it?  And if so, did the 1.1 beta2 make it
go away?  Or does the issue still exist in 1.1beta2?  I no longer run
mswindows, and was not able to confirm the issue, in order to move it
to new.  Can you?

It must be font related? Or maybe related to msoffice xfers?  I used
old office for win95, so my tests might not be the same as those using
office97 or later versions.  Maybe this is why I could not see it.

Or perhaps something to do with the opensymbol font handling?  In the
email link, the reporter mentions the empty rectangles, which sounds
like a missing font to me. This has been a typical sighting in issues
related to the opensymbol font. 

Perhaps because more than one user has mentioned it, we should try to
isolate its cause, and attempt to confirm it...no matter which version
of OOo?  I wonder if the release notes mention it.  I will look into this.

Because both users tie it to 1.0.0, and I could not see it in 1.0.2 on
the same OS as reported, perhaps it should be closed as "works for
me". I can do that, because of my earlier tests.  In light of this
thought, I too would suggest that the reporters try an upgrade to see
if that makes the default bullet more bearable.  

I will attempt to reach the reporter on the mail list, to ask if an
upgrade has been attempted to address the issue.  I'll follow up with
feedback here.   

here is an email link from the users list with a solution:

http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=443850&listName=users

In digging further, version 1.0.2 still showed some issues with the
opensymbol font (ref. Issue 6555).  OOo1.1beta addressed the issue
described in #6555, but then another issue regarding opensymbol showed
up (ref. Issue 13516, which was marked as duplicate to Issue 12257).

Not sure how the bullet issue fits into all of this, but it looks like
OOo 1.1beta2, as skoorb suggested, is the best choice of upgrades to
address this issue.  I reviewed release notes for this issue and did
not find it listed against any specific release.

Some feedback from someone who has actually witnessed this issue would
be most helpful to verify that it no longer exists.

Here is a mail link that contains a little bit of data toward this
issue: 
http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=711096&listName=users

Also, another user, who has seen this issue, will likely look into it
to try to provide some data about it...so hopefully soon, some useful
notes will be attached to show if the issue still exists.

The Black Circle with a "10" has been fixed in 1.1Beta2.  

Setting the Default Bullet type would make a good feature request.

Marking issue as a feature request, guessed target milestone at OOo
2.0, and changed status to new to show request of changing default
bullet type.

I adjusted the title to the current state in OOo 1.1 Beta because the
mentioned defect is fixed now.
Reassigned to Bettina.

Considered for Office later.

What about connecting the default bullet type to a bullet style? Then changing
the default would be easy, just by changing the corresponding style.

By the way: This would be consistent with the way of handling or modifying other
styles like default paragraph styles or default page styles. I.e. save the
modifications into a new template, which at present isn't possible with the
default bullet style.

*** Issue 34795 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

SBA: I believe skoorb who stated in (already closed) issue 45163, that this one
looks like a duplicate. At times, the most interesting (yet still open) issue
59997 looks like reflecting the current "state of the art" behavior of
OpenSymbol concerning bullets.
SBA->BH: As discussed, I propose to close this one as duplicate of issue 59997.

*** This issue has been marked as a duplicate of 59997 ***

> SBA->BH: As discussed, I propose to close this one  
> as duplicate of issue 59997as duplicate of issue 59997 
 
As I understand issue 59997, it treats only the question of the used fonts, 
whereas the subject of issue 9437 is the whish to define your own 
standard-bullet-style in writer-templates. 
 
Claudia 

This issue is not about missing bullet fonts, as issue 59997 is about.

But it is about the possibility of changing the default bullet type, i.e.
changing the (existent) bullet type which is created when the user clicks on the
bullet icon to some other (existent) bullet type.

Will therefore reopen.

I'll second that!

With all the great facilities to customise OpenOffice, it just is so silly not
to be able to set a default bullet. Apart from the nuisance factor that using
bullets is now either a multi-click operation (which I don't like) or forces me
to have the stylist open all the time (which chews up precious screen estate).

I'd gladly see this handled in a sooncoming release, since this is "bugging" me 
a lot. I use OOo as the only word processor in my business where I write a lot 
of technical documentation. I need bulleted lists a lot, sometimes several lists 
per page, because they make structuring texts (read mostly by laities) easier.

It's quite a pain in the arse to change the bullet style manually all the time 
to something that works better with the CI Typography than the default small 
disc.

For me it would suffice if one of the "List" styles in the Stylist were 
connected (or connectable) to the "Default" or "Text Body" Paragraph Style. This 
way the only thing one would have to do when designing one's templates would be 
to alter the "Default" List Style (or connect another one to the Paragraph 
style). This can already be done for Numbering, so why not for Bullets?

I'll sponsor a Pack of my favourite Coffee (Greenpeace 100% Arabica) to the 
guy(s) implementing this. Take me at my word: martin dot meitzner att gmx dot 
net.

I think this issue should have a higher priority. It is relevant for all
platforms (certainly not just windows 98!), and it hampers usability.

For example, I would like to use the Unicode standard bullet character U+2022 as
the default bullet in documents, so that bullets show correctly in hopefully any
recent environment. I can do that the hard way, of course, by setting this
character in the "List 1" numbering style, and associating that numbering style
to the "List 1" paragraph style.

As a result, starting a bullet list needs two clicks (to select the paragraph
style from the drop-down menu), and, more importantly, ending the bullet list
needs my attention (to change the paragraph font back to "Text Body" or whatever).

Instead, it would be so much more intuitive to be able to use the "Bullets
On/Off" button; but that gets me a different bullet (U+25CF from the StarSymbol
font), too large for my taste, and with the wrong second-level bullet (an "o", I
would like to see a "-"... you get the point).

I use OpenOffice 2.1 on a Mac. 

This could be solved together with the addition of a "default list style" that
is automatically applied when the automatic numbering/bulleting is used. 

Hi Mathias, I have changed the current owner to your owner. Please take the
ownership of these enhancements.

I just lost a friend of mine as a convert to OOo as a result of this feature :( 

It is the one feature she needed, (for quick, properly formatted note taking.) 

I like the idea of applying a default list-style to lists generated with the
bullet button.

target 3.0

Folks
This ones been round for a while - great to see someones finally put a lid on it!

UI change -> 3.1

For bullets, we need to be able to set not only the bullet type, but the position.

Even more importantly, we need to be able to set the numbering defaults (the
settings the user gets when they push the numbering on button). This would
include both the settings on the options page and on the position page.

(Is numbering a separate feature request from bullets?)

*** Issue 95072 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

There are a number of problems with bullets in OpenOffice 3.0 that this bullet
revamping should address.  There's a discussion about it going on in the forums
at http://bit.ly/1yOu3, and I've attached picture in that forum comparing the
problems between 3.0, 2.4, and MS Word.  

In short, OpenOffice 3.0 handles bullets made in MS Word doc files better than
it handles making them itself or even odt files.  Bullets made in a 3.0 writer
file, whether odt or doc, are not visible after the first level. That same 3.0
odt file opened in 2.4 shows all the bullets, but they're all flushed left. 
That same 3.0 doc file opened in 2.4 looks like the 3.0 file -- no visible
bullets after the first level.  However, that same 3.0 doc file opened in MS
Word looks fine.

A doc file with bullets made in MS Word appears correctly in 2.4 and 3.0.

One would expect that OpenOffice could at least handle bullets in its own file
format.

@wyth: I noticed the same issue after upgrading from 2.4 to 3.0. However, when
you have deeply nested lists, there will be a bullet (black circle) on levels 1,
4, 7, etc.

Maybe this is a font issue?

I don't quite understand why the perfectly reasonable default bullets from 2.4
were replaced with something clearly broken...

By the way, I run OpenOffice.org on Ubuntu Hardy. I installed it following these
instructions:
http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/10/14/install-openofficeorg-30-in-ubuntu-804-and-810/

please take over

I am new here, but the two comments dated 26 Oct 08 seem off topic. They refer
to a serious defect rather than to a new feature and as such should probably be
captured in a separate Issue# with higher priority?
Perhaps such issue already exhist in the database?

I am seeing similar problems - see
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11107&p=57599#p57599

OD->tralex:
I agree to you.

OD->wyth, bertvv:
- The non-visible bullet characters seems to be font problem. Please check, if
the OpenSymbol font, which is included in the OOo installation is correctly
installed.
- Regarding the problem of "OOo 3.0 text documents in OOo 2.x" please have a
look at specification "New position and space attributes for list levels of a
list style" found at
http://specs.openoffice.org/writer/numbering/NewListLevelAttrs.odt - especially
chapter 2 "Migration".
- For the change to the bullet characters please have a look at issue 63395 and
at my OOoCon 2008 presentation, found at
http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2008/programme/friday_1422.odp or
http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2008/programme/friday_1422.pdf

If there are still problems, I want to ask you to submit corresponding new
issues. Thanks.

BTW, 
1. The OpenDocument file format is not OpenOffice.org's own file format. It has
been created by OASIS and is controlled by OASIS.
2. OOo 3.0 supports ODF 1.2, while OOo 2.x only supports ODF 1.0 resp. ODF 1.1 -
thus, a user can not expect that everything is preserved, when opening a ODF 1.2
document created by OOo 3.0 in OOo 2.x

This issue's purpose is to solve the problem, that the user can not change the
default bullet list style and the default numbering list style.

I had talked about this issue on the OOoCon with Jacqueline
(jrahemipour@openoffice.org).
We had made the decision that it would make more sense to first have a look at
the whole numbering/list area and its known defects and workout appropriate
actions/needed changes in a specification or something similar in order to have
a better improvement/correction of the numbering/list area.
This work will take some time with the goal to have a solution for OOo 3.2 or
OOo 3.3. Thus, I re-target this issue to OOo 3.2

due to limited resources I have to re-target this issue to OOo 3.3

setting keyword "numbering"

It is not clear, if this issue will be solved for OOo 3.3.
To be honest, I am adjusting the target.

Yes I've been having this issue as well for many years now, specifically 
setting default position for bullets/numbering.
Shame it hasn't been fixed for 8 years, seems to me as something fundumental.

od->svartberg:
I agree. 
This issue is not solved yet due to limited resources.

Oh Lord please fix it finally!!!

Hope this is solved in 3.3...

I am sorry. This is issue is not solved for OOo 3.3

I hope I can work on it for OOo 3.4

Hope that this issue will be resolved in the near future.

Raptor88

Is there any update on this issue whether it will get fixed in OpenOffice or LibreOffice?

Hi together,
FYI (& FYA) I've added this bug to the list of enhancemts in LibreOffice: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement
If you like I would suggest to vote for this enhancement.
Thx & Regards

Reset the assignee to the default "issues@openoffice.apache.org".