Issue 22765 - Chapter management is non-intuitively solved
Summary: Chapter management is non-intuitively solved
Status: CLOSED WONT_FIX
Alias: None
Product: Writer
Classification: Application
Component: code (show other issues)
Version: OOo 1.1 RC
Hardware: All All
: P3 Trivial with 2 votes (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: AOO issues mailing list
QA Contact:
URL:
Keywords: needmoreinfo
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2003-11-23 18:24 UTC by carstenklein
Modified: 2017-05-20 10:11 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: ENHANCEMENT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


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Description carstenklein 2003-11-23 18:24:30 UTC
Managing documents

For me, it is of utter importance to have chapters. Not just chapters mentioned
somewhere in the documentation or the online help system, but real chapters
which I can find in the menus, most prominently located in the "Insert Manual
Break.. " menu-item of the Insert Menu, or even in a document structure manager
type of thing, and, finally in the OpenOffice Document - Contents document.

Well, to cut things short. It is really a pain in the ass to manage chapters in
a document, since this is in my opinion in no way intuitively solved.

Somehow, chapters seem to be hard-codedly associated with the "Heading
1"-paragraph style. This is quite ingeneous in that you have to find out this
very circumstance by playing the old trial-and-error game we are all so very
fond of. Well, this makes me think of some other products produced by some big
player out there, namely Microsoft and their previous versions of the Microsoft
Office Suite. If their not-so-intuitive chapter (or rather section) management
has finally been re-worked on stays questionable, but why does OpenOffice do
such an awful job at it, when it is, IMHO, so easy to do?

Instead of hard-coding the chapter status of a page by associating it with the
"Heading 1"-paragraph style, why not simply extend the schema of the XML
representation and add a text:chapter element to it? Then we could happily use
the Heading 1 wherever we like and finally get rid of this tightly coupled and
non-intuitively solved issue?

This would even have positive influence on the document management, since then I
could restructure the document based on chapters, and, while we're at it,
perhaps even sections and subsections.

My proposal is as such:

Incorporate structural elements into the XML schema, besides the ones which are
already there, namely:

<text:chapter/>, which is derived from <text:p/>.

Make the term Chapter available in the Insert-menu, by either having it in the
"Manual Break"-menu item or by having it directly as a menu item of the Insert-menu.

Allow editing of chapter properties, like name and so on, or perhaps associate
this with the a newly to be created "Chapter Title" - paragraph style.

This would correspond directly to the document Title  paragraph style.

Allow editing of section properties, like name and, you guessed it from the
above, by associating this with a "Section Title" - paragraph style.

This can be hard-coded at will, since they directly relate to each other.

But please, no more ""Heading 1" provides both name and identity to the chapter".

I guess that, after changing the internal representation of chapters and adding
more information to the document will solve all pending issues regarding chapter
naming, numbering, Page Styles forgetting their follow-up pagestyles,
Page-Styles resetting to default after changing the first heading in the
chapter, guess what, "Heading 1", and so on. Besides it would make your code
more maintainable when dealing with either paragraphs, or chapters, and
subsequently sections.
Comment 1 mci 2003-12-15 11:26:49 UTC
reassigned to bh
Comment 2 whitercjr 2004-06-25 00:29:08 UTC
I heartedly agree that chapter management is unworkable and support needs to be
elevated to something greater than obscure and essentially undocumented.

[Note: "Chapter Name" and "Chapter Number" are *not* hard coded to Heading 1. 
The chapter information is set by virtue of Tools->Outline Numbering.  Whatever
style is in the level 1 "paragraph style" drop-down will be your chapber name. 
So if you have a marked-up document and you want "heading 2" to be your chapter
naming style, do Tools->Outline Numbering, select level 1 and then change the
paragraph style.  Of course your heading numbers will all get renumbered etc.]

In many ways this is worse.  "The Single Outline" is thus a document wide
structure instead of being a repeatable part of a document.  In a larger sense,
this "Feature" makes it impossible to "put a little outline in a sidebar" in the
midst of your document (or in a particular chapter).

"Outlines" should be insertable items, like tables.  The presence of "outline
numbering" as a document-wide feature is "bad".  And no, restarting the
numbering isn't a real solution in terms of the structural problems.

The existing implementation "insists" that each document can contain only one
outline, and that the entire document is part of that one single outline, but it
leaves everything "before" the first instance of the first heading "orpahend" so
there is leader-text and then "the real document"... or something.

The thing that is currently controlled by the Tools->Outline Numbering logic
should be renamed or something to make it "Document Structure" or something, and
it should be anchored into the navigator.  Then the term and feature set
"Outline" should be reinstituted as a an insertable object.  Or something... 8-)

This goes to address some of the "hugely problematic" handling of some of more
obvious Style Mark handling.

For instance, try the following procedure:
File->New->Text Document
(Type random text)
(select that text)
Click "Header 1" in the stylelist

Now, go to the beginning of the document and you just _*try*_ to insert
something *before* that style block.  There isnt a navagator or key sequence or
menu item in the entire program that will let you do that.  Pressing enter
inserts a carrage return into the heart of that "one paragraph".  This same
behavior relocates manual breaks into the style elements that follow them. 
Consequently if you "do the natural thing" to put in a chapter break
[ctrl-enter, type chapter name, mark chapter name as Heading 1, keep typing]
then you go back and decide to replace the page breaks with odd-page/right-page
breaks, you *invariably* loose the "Heading-1-ness" when you delete the page break.

That is painful and wrong.

Document features (Section Marks, Chapter marks [which shoudl exists], Page
Breaks, etc) *MUST* exist at a level of abstraction which contains the paragraph
styles etc, not some sort of compositing.

If I do the show-hidden-things Backwards-Roman-P thing, I should be able to see
and navigate amongst and select the breaks and marks and such as if they were
object anchors.

OpenOffice is great for short static work, but it can be vexing as all get out
when working with something large and polymorphic.  The number of times I have
had to play style-patching-monkey to resturcture the whitespace (etc) in my
novel to meet the various submission requirements of readers, editors, and
publishers (who can be draconian as all get out) has shown the existing "break"
and "chapter" and "section" handling to be quite flawed.  And that was with
straight prose.

I have used OpenOffice for years, but I would never undertake writing a
technical manual or text book with this software.  [Ok, I would, and have, but I
end up closing the navigator, ignoring the outlining features, Adding fantom
carrage returns on either side of page breaks, and doing all sorts of "because I
know better" procedures to circumvent the badness.]

But now I just rant.  So:

Chapter Break Marks.
Section Break Marks.
Page Break Marks.
All at a "outside" or "above" of "between" the "paragraphs" (or in special
magical no-text-allowed paragraphs all their own, what with "the paragraph"
being so central to the API, and yes, I've looked at trying to fix this but it
is beyond me.)
All Editable (and therefore targetable and selectable.)

They are all breaks after all, you only need to be able to assign things like
"chapter name" to the break itself the way you would assign variable text or
other attributes.

Whoops, ranting again... 8-)
Comment 3 ace_dent 2008-05-16 02:09:31 UTC
OpenOffice.org Issue Tracker - Feedback Request.

The Issue you raised is currently 'Unconfirmed' pending review, but has not been
updated within the last 3 years. Please consider re-testing with one of the
latest versions of OOo, as the problem(s) may have already been addressed.
Either use the recent stable version: http://download.openoffice.org/index.html
or consider trying the new OOo 3 BETA (still in testing):
http://download.openoffice.org/3.0beta/
 
Please report back the outcome so this Issue may be Closed or Progressed as
necessary - otherwise it may be Resolved as Invalid in the future. You may also
wish to search for (and note) any duplicates of this Issue that may have
advanced further by checking the Issue Tracker:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/query.cgi
 
Many thanks,
Andrew
 
Cleaning-up and Closing old Issues as part of:
~ The Grand Bug Squash, pre v3 ~
http://marketing.openoffice.org/3.0/announcementbeta.html
Comment 4 bettina.haberer 2010-05-21 14:42:41 UTC
To grep the issues easier via "requirements" I put the issues currently lying on
my owner to the owner "requirements". 
Comment 5 Edwin Sharp 2014-04-09 11:33:06 UTC
Please attach example.
Comment 6 Edwin Sharp 2014-04-23 05:37:47 UTC
No info from author.