Apache OpenOffice (AOO) Bugzilla – Issue 67386
In StarOffice 8 "alte deutsche Rechtschreibung" doesn't work any more
Last modified: 2013-02-24 20:43:08 UTC
I report this here, because I found no way to sent it to SUN and you surely knew the right developer ;) In StarOffice 7 the checkbox "Alte deutsche Rechtschreibung" in Extras > Optionen > Spracheinstellungen > Linguistik works as it should. If it is checked, the sentence "Schön, daß du kommst." is OK, if it is not checked, the word "daß" is redlined. In StarOffice 8 this Option doesn't work anymore. You can mark it, but "daß" is always redlined.
As the "Alte deutsche Rechtschreibung" checkbox seems to have become completely dysfunctional, it should be removed from the UI ASAP in order to avoid confusion. The option itself could be kept, however, in the config files for the possible (but, as it seems to me, unlikely to come) implementation of #i13376#. The code for the checkbox is in svx/source/options/optlingu.cxx; look for "EID_OLD_GERMAN" or "sOldGerman".
Even though SO no longer provides the functionality to check old german spelling OOo at least has respective dictionaries (at least for spelling) and thus this functionality could be kept for OOo. (See issue 13376) The problem currently would be that such dictionaries for old and new spelling exist only for the spellchecker. There is only one type of dictionary for the hyphenation and thesaurus. (I don't know if those are old or new german spelling. I would guess them to be for old german spelling though.) Changing state to 'new'.
*** Issue 69177 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Created attachment 38891 [details] quickcheck
I am strictly against the removal of the support of the so-called old German orthography!!! Please note that OpenOffice does not have the mandate to force people in one or the other orthography. Actually, even the German administration does not have the force except for schools and public authorities, as ruled by the German's topmost jurisdiction. The majority of Germans still prefer the "old" spelling/hyphenation, and in absolute numbers this group of people is much larger than other groups of people speaking languages also supported by OpenOffice. Also, it is reasonable that people would like to maintain larger documents written in the "old" orthography without intermixing "old" and "new".
No flame wars about German orthography, please. And please stop claiming things like "the majority perfers" if there is no proof for it: children have been taught in school the so called new orthography for more than 10 years now, and almost all newspapers and publishing houses use it. This issue is about a dysfunctional option in the UI. Period. It is not about removing "support" for the pre-1996 German orthography, because we currently don't "support" it in OOo anyway. So, if neither issue 13376 is going to be implemented into OOo, nor the problem of this issue is going to be fixed in SO, I don't see any sensible reason why this option should be kept in the UI. I already suggested to remove the switch from the GUI only, but to keep the option itself, in order not to complicate the possible implementation of issue 13376. But even if issue 13376 was implemented, I would however plea for the removal or blocking of this option in the meantime, because I think dead options are evil.
Sorry, I don't do you that favour. Good to know that dozens of representative opinion polls conducted all over the years (including 2006, of course) that clearly show that the majority of Germans dislike the new orthography and will continue to write in the "old" style are absolutely no proof for you. Also good to know that the hostage-taking of the children by the ministers of education still works. And finally, good to know that blind obedience to the administration, one of the vices of Germans, is still in place, even among the open source community. Obviously, it is not an openness in mind, just in source. THE OLD ORTHOGRAPHY MUST BE EXTINGUISHED, THERE IS NO PLACE ON EARTH FOR IT. Sounds familiar. I hope that you already have burnt all your books written in old orthography, similar to the libraries that have removed children's literature because of it. So I can stop promoting this bag of bugs as an alternative to Word.
klama, I don't want people like you to promote OpenOffice.org. Thanks for leaving.
Is the only thing you have to say? Nobody asked to use the "old" orthography in the GUI. Nobody asked to remove the support for the "new" orthography. Oh yes, it would be terrible if the distribution would be 100k larger. Any other excuses? Ah, yes, it is taught in school and used in newspapers. So everyone that does not use the "new" orthography is a stick-in-the-mud, a right wing, a dumb person, just averse to learn this great orthography. No way. These millions of people do not deserve it to be supported. Are they human beings at all? Hey, we are open and intercultural, every lingual community with more than 100 people gets its dictionary, but the support of the old german orthography, that is way too much! The old orthography is wrong because the great impeccable ministers of education said it. So it's a fact. And of course we do not support any wrong things. This is political incorrect. The creation of wrong texts must be suppressed with all means! Is that the way you think? This is disgusting.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Gesetz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
Did I mention the Nazis? No. These are your associations. The extinction of the old orthography? Listen to the great statements of the newspaper publishers why they think they have to use the new orthography. Burning books: Doesn't it matter whether they are recycled or burnt, does it? Right wing? This term is used by the proponents of the new orthography to defame the critics. It is not _my_ invention. Sure, I chose the terms intentionally. And you got caught into the trap. It is a predictable behavioral pattern. You refer to Godwin's law in order to avoid to think about your position. You are obviously unable to justify yourself.
My position is: don't talk to people who start making Nazi references in a bug tracking system. I did not make a single comment on the issue itself but only about your style of disussion. I'm sorry you didn't notice that. This was my last comment on this issue.
Sure. You don't want a discussion at all. Neither with nor without Nazi statements, neither here nor elsewhere. Why don't you say that clearly?
After having been so rudely interrupted, I would now like to return to the topic, in order to have this fixed hopefully in OOo 2.3. 1. The option in question is and - in OOo - has always been dead. This alone would already be reason enough to remove it from the UI. It confuses users because it suggests a functionality that does not exist and - in OOo - never existed. 2. Even if issue 13376 was implemented, the corresponding setting should not be done application-wide: the language - and hence the spelling - is a property of the paragraph or character style. Thus, even if issue 13376 was implemented, the option for the "old spelling" would need to be a part of the list of languages in the styles dialog, whereas the option in Tools ... (in question here) would need to be removed completely. I remind those interested in politics that removing this option does not have any implicit or explicit meaning on support for spell-checking whatsoever. The option in question here does not work, because currently only one spelling per language is supported. The requirements for supporting more spellings per language, and hence also for support for the pre-1996 German orthography, are discussed in issue 13376. This issue here is only about cleaning up a broken, because non-working and non-systematic, GUI.
*** Issue 76097 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
*** Issue 79393 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Unfortunately UI freeze for OOo 2.3 has passed for a few days by now. :-( Sadly this issue came not anew in view anymore. In order to have it decided one way or the other and not forgotten again I'll set the target to OOo 2.4 now. TL->FL: Can you please check with FL Laci (nemeth@openoffice.org) when or if the mentioned issue 13376 might be fixed? Then you should know if we finally want to remove that check box or not. Anyway if I remember correctly for StarOffice LH said we will no longer support the old German spelling.
*** Issue 81788 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
We are 2 weeks from OOo2.4.0 feature freeze now.—Can we please have a decision on this issue?
No resources for OOo 2.4 -> retargeted to OOo 3.0.
please decide in time so the application help for OOo 3.0 can get changed accordingly.
13376 has been set to 3.x. New ISO code seems not to be an option -> set target to 3.x for this issue.
mbayer->fl: I disagree with target 3.x. As I already said above (in desc15): even if issue 13376 was implemented in some way or another, Tools -> Options would still be the wrong place for this option. Given this and hence the fact that this issue does not depend on 13376, I think this issue (=broken UI in Tools -> Options) should be solved ASAP (=3.0).
How about closing this issue? In OpenOffice.org 3.0.1, there is no such option as "German spelling - old" any more.
From the comments (I don't have 3.0.x), it does not look like as if the problem has been resolved.
The option "Old German Spelling" has been removed in version 3.0.1 for grammar checking. See issue 91949 for details. Closing.
Didn't expect anything else. Well, ignorance is a bliss.
tl->regina, klama : 1) Even though that checkbox was still lurking around it was already non-functional since SO 9. Because in that release the StarOffice specific spell checker that supported both German variants was removed. 2) As for OOo and the Hunspell spell checker: That option was never used. That is even if you switched the state of that checkbox nothing would have happened. This is because in OOo you need(ed) to choose and install the specific dictionary for the variant you liked to be checked. Thus in terms of functionality nothing was lost compared to OOo 3.0 / SO 9.
No such option in OOo 3.3.0 RC8 (OOO330m18 Build9556) Linux 64 Bit de_DE. Closing.