If you have a paragraph indent of e.g. 4cm and you start a numbered/bulleted
list, the indent will not be regarded as it was done in OO 2.x. The list gets
its default indents.

Reason for the changed behavior in OOo 3.0:
Since OOo 3.0 new list level attributes are used for position and space of the
list label and the text. These new list level attributes do not no longer the
paragraph indent values.

Proposed solution:
When starting a default bullet/numbering list, the created list style should
take over the indent values of the paragraph as its list level indent values.

*** Issue 98241 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

Due to limited resources I have to re-target a solution of this issue to the
next release, namely OOo 3.2 

I reported Issue 98241 and found out that not only documents created with OOo
2.4 are effected. Attached you will find a test document created with OOo 3.0.0.
The indent of lists is missing in OOo 3.0.1 and 3.1 (dev snapshots) but not in
OOo 3.0.0. Some cws between m9 and m15 has changed the indent behavior of list
styles.

(PS: We use paragraph indents for nearly all paragraphs in the technical
documentations (instructions for machines) in our company - for better
readability, place for pictograms, etc. So, it is annoying (especially for users
in productive environments) that minor updates of OOo change the behavior of
styles formatting.)

Created attachment 59739 [details]
ignored indent in >=3.0.1 but not in 3.0.0

OD->lendo:
I am sorry. 
First, your issue is a different issue as this one.
Second, the behavior in OOo 3.0 regarding the indent values at list items is
wrong. This has been corrected in OOo 3.0.1 by issue 96772.
In the given document the list style "Numbering 1" is directly applied to the
paragraphs. The paragraphs itself have no intent values set. The paragraph style
of the second part of these paragraphs is "Marginalia", which has indent values set.
According to the specification about the introduction of the new list level
attributes - see
http://specs.openoffice.org/writer/numbering/NewListLevelAttrs.odt - the indent
values of the list style has to be applied and not the indent value of the
paragraph style.

OD I am reading your specification doc and it says:
1.4.1 ... "Existing paragraph's indent attributes overrule the new attributes 
first-line-indent and indent-at of the list level of a list style, which is 
directly applied to the paragraph. In this case the alignment position for the 
list label is the sum of the paragraph's indent attributes first-line and left-
margin. The general indent of the text of the list item is the paragraph's 
indent attribute left-margin." ... 

and 

1.4.2 ... "Existing paragraph style's indent attributes first-line and left-
margin overrule the new attributes first-line-indent and indent-at of the list 
levels of a list style, which is applied to the paragraph style.
The new attributes first-line-indent and indent-at of a list level of a list 
style, which is applied to the paragraph style, are applied under the following 
conditions:
* The paragraph style has no own indent attributes first-line and left-margin 
specified.
* The paragraph, which has this paragraph style applied1, has no own indent 
attributes first-line and left-margin specified." ...

This is clearly not how it has been implemented. All of my existing paragraph 
indents have been reset to "0" for all of my bulleted text. 

Regardless of whether it is in the specification or not, it is obviously not 
acceptable to implement bullets and numbering in a way that ignores current 
paragraph indentation. This would imply that the user would need to setup and 
apply different bullet and numbering styles separately for each indented text 
styling. This is both onerous and ridiculously over complex. 

Also if I may add Items 2.1, 2.2.1 and 2.3 are completely unacceptable! In this 
section it is clearly being stated that a properly bulleted and laid out 
document sent to a user of an early version of OOo will not render that 
bulleting correctly as all of the settings will be returned to "0." That's 
worse than anything MS Word has ever done in my experience!

Personally, once again I am uninstalling OOo 3.x for the 4th time (including go-
oo.org builds) and returning to 2.4. 

For those interested, the go-oo 3.0 (not 3.0.1) build does not have this issue. 
Unfortunately the go-oo 3.0 build also has this issue: 92968 (so you've been 
warned). http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=92968

OD->corigo:
The specification for the new list level attributes should (and in my honest
opinion is) implemented as stated in the specification. If you recognize any
defect in this area, please submit a corresponding issue and attach the
corresponding documents, if needed and possible.

BTW 1st, there is a difference between unset attributes and explicit set
attribute with value '0'. If the left indent of a paragraph is explicitly set to
'0', the intent values of a potential applied list style is not used.

BTW 2nd, one of the reasons of the introduction of the new list level attributes
is that these are the ones which Microsoft Word is using with the behavior
regarding the indent values as described in the specification.

BTW 3rd, I am sorry that I am not perfect and that I have overlooked/overseen
the one or the other usability issue during the specification and implementation
of the new list level attributes. But, I take this issue seriously and I am
planning to fix it for OOo 3.2. Thus, constructive feedback is welcome.

This report appropriately describes the issue already. Specifically: bulleted 
content in legacy documents that was indented with a paragraph style is no 
longer displaying the appropriate indent in version 3.0.1. 

1. In 3.0 build create a new Text document 
2. Create a style with a paragraph indent of 1.27 cm
3. With the selected style click the bullet button and type some text
3.a. Bulleted content has both the indent of the existing paragraph (x) and the 
default bullet indent (y) .... so the indent is x+y
4. Open the text document in version 3.0.1 ... the bulleted text has an indent 
of y (the default for bulleted content). The paragraph indent has been 
completely ignored. This is contrary to the statement in the specification!

OD->corigo:
First, what you have described is not the defect which marttikarjalainen has
described in this issue.

Second, your description is something like lendo had already reported in this
issue, where I already replied that the OOo 3.0 has a defect regarding the "new
list level attributes" specification, which has been fixed in OOo 3.0.1.

Third, the behavior of OOo 3.0.1 regarding the indent values of the document
created by your given steps is exactly, what the "new list level attributes"
specification states. The list style is directly applied to the paragraph. The
paragraph has no indent values. Thus, the list style's indent values are used.
The indent values of the paragraph style, which is applied to the paragraph, are
ignored.

You said: "The list style is directly applied to the paragraph. The
paragraph has no indent values. Thus, the list style's indent values are used.
The indent values of the paragraph style, which is applied to the paragraph, are
ignored."... but that is incorrect to my statement. In my statement I said that 
the paragraph DOES have indent values, but that the bulleting is ignoring those 
values as if they are not set. 

In my reading of the original post by marttikarjalainen we are talking about 
the exact same thing. I do not see any variation between our respective 
reports, other than, potentially, the methodology used to set the paragraph 
indent.

OD->corigo:
Your last statement makes the difference - set indent attributes directly at the
paragraph are not the same as set indent attributes at the paragraph style.
In your given steps a paragraph style has been created with indent values. This
paragraph style is then applied to a paragraph. Thus, the paragraph itself has
no indent values - the paragraph got its indent values from its applied
paragraph style. The list style, which is applied via the toolbar button "Bullet
On/Off" is directly applied to the paragraph. Thus, the list style's indent
values overrule the indent values of the paragraph style, as stated in the
specification.

I also forgot to mentioned that the button "Numbering On/Off" and "Bullet
On/Off" also has the effect that possible directly set indent attributes of the
current paragraph (or the selected paragraphs) are reset - only paragraph indent
attributes are reset, not the ones of the applied paragraph style.
Exactly, this additional functionality needs to be reworked in a fix for this
issue. As stated in my proposed solution the actual applied paragraph indent
values will be recognized on function "Numbering On/Off" respectively "Bullet
On/Off" and these values will be applied to the newly created list style.

I'm not super clear on your last post...

If I understand you correctly you are stating that because my style was set by 
style and not directly to the paragraph, that it is a different case than the 
one posted. Ok, if so:
1. do you want me to enter the separate bug as you suggested above.
2. Do you accept that this is a bug? 

OD->corigo:
I think you understand my last post about the difference between directly set
indent attributes at the paragraph and set indent attribute at the paragraph style.

If your use case is:
"A paragraph has certain indent attributes via its paragraph style and
function/button "Numbering On/Off" respectively "Bullet On/Off" is perform to
start a new list, then the current valid indent values are ignored, but should
be considered".
Then I propose to handle your use case by a fix for this issue.

Just to be clear, you are talking about 3.0.2 not 3.2 for implementation. I am 
currently being forced to use older versions of OOo in order to view my 
documents with correct formatting and I really don't see myself waiting 2 years 
for version 3.2.

OD->corigo:
No, I am talking about OOo 3.2.
Release of OOo 3.2 is planned for September 2009 - see
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease32

*** Issue 101554 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

Could somebody suggest a work around for this issue, other then moving back to a
previous version of OOo? As 3.10 for example solves some other layout issues I
have. 

A possible workaround is to perform the action manually, which I have proposed
as a solution for this issue:
- changing the indent values of the automatically created list style.
This can be done by the following steps after you have started a new list using
the corresponding icons in the toolbar:
- open context menu of the paragraph, at which you have started the list.
- choose context menu item "Numbering/Bullets" --> Bullets and Numbering dialog
pops up
- choose pane "Position"
- adjust the values of "Aligned at", "Indent at" and the tab stop position
accordingly
-- for the given document this could be "4cm", "4.5 cm" and "4.5 cm"

I really don't think "manual" is ever a solution. I would recommend creating a 
few list styles that match your required indentations, and apply them as 
needed. In this way it will stay correctly formatted even (and if ever) after 
3.2 (purportedly) solves this issue (but not the original design flaw). 

Please let me comment corigo's last comment:
- I have never said, that my proposed workaround is the "ever solution". A
community member ask for a workaround and I tried to help with my proposed
workaround.
- corigo's proposed workaround by creating certain list styles is also a good
workaround.
- I am not very amused about the corigo's hints, that
-- this issue probably will not be solved - <quote>... (and if ever) solved
...</quote>
-- that there is a <quote>design flaw</quote>
I am expecting more constructive criticism in an open-source project.

BTW, one of the reasons for the new list level attributes and its specification
and behavior are the list level attributes and its behavior in Microsoft Word.
Thus, the new list level attributes helps OOo Writer to be more interoperable
with Microsoft Word.

Just my 2 cents.

Dear od,

I have already given my clear criticism of the definitive design flaw above. 
Specifically that it complete breaks backwards compatability between versions 
of OOo. Interoperability between MSO should take a backseat to interoperability 
between OOo versions. 

This relates to my post on Feb 19 and the specification items 2.1, 2.2.1, and 
2.3. 

Do not mis-understand that we are unappreciative of the fact that this is a 
largely volunteer, community based project. None-the-less when the "Community" 
experiences a complete and UN-forewarned restructuring of their existing 
document layouts, there will certainly be an outcry. At least I am trying to be 
humorous, when what I really want to do is go cry in my soup. Especially when 
my soup is going to be very cold by September 2009. 

OD->corigo:
Ok.

Regarding backward compatibility in general:
I think it is valid to evolve and improve OOo. This means new features and
changes to OOo. New features in general can not be handled by older versions.
Otherwise such new features are not needed. Thus, it is quite normal that new
features break the backward compatibility, especially when the new features are
introduced in the OpenDocument file format.

Regarding backward compatibility for new feature "new list level attributes":
The specification has been announced early in January 2008 on mailing list
announce@specs.openoffice.org. A developer snapshot containing this feature was
available in March 2008. Thus, this change was not <quote>UN-forewarned</quote>.
This feature is also a ODF 1.2 feature and when you configure OOo to store ODF
1.1 (Menu - Tools - Options - Load/Save - General), the former list level
attributes are used for lists in new text documents.

And sorry that I am not 110% perfect in the realization of this feature.
Yes, there might be the one or the other defect. Yes, there might be the one or
the other usability issue regarding this feature. But be sure that I will do my
best to find corresponding solutions for these problems and that I am open for
proposed solutions from others.

We won't debate the availability of information... very few of the User 
community are going to be on the Spec mailing list, or even read it if they 
are. The release notes tell us next to nothing about changes in the system. So, 
as users we are more or less completely in the dark until it is too late. Doing 
the sort of Due Diligence that you are proposing simply isn't practical.

Of course, the issue at stake here, is the lack of forward compatability. I.e. 
my old documents can't open in a usable form in the new software... That's 
about a 50% grade (only 1/2 of the cases considered) forget 110%. But now it 
sounds like I'm beating up on you, and that's not what I want to do. 

So tell me how we (I) can help you?

*** Issue 103914 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***

working on implementation of proposed solution from 2008-11-13 in cws sw32numbf01.

OD->corigo:
If You have text documents from former OOo versions which are not imported
correct regarding lists, then please submit corresponding issues. You can
directly assign these issues to me (od@openoffice.org). Please set MRU
(mru@openoffice.org) on CC.
If You want You can also send these text documents directly via email to me
(od@openoffice.org) with the defect description. Then I will perform a
pre-evaluation and we can group the text documents showing the same defect into
one issue.

fixed in cws sw32numbf01 - changed file:
/sw/source/ui/wrtsh/wrtsh1.cxx, rev. 275483

further adjustment needed for correct handling of paragraph indent values, when
the list level indent values have to be taken - changed file:
/sw/source/core/text/itrcrsr.cxx, rev. 275703

OD->MRU: Checked in internal installation set of cws sw32numbf01 - please verify.

further adjustments of the fix due to the MRU's testing results - changed file:
/sw/source/ui/wrtsh/wrtsh1.cxx, rev. 275780

OD->MRU: Checked adjusted fix in internal installation set of cws sw32numbf01 -
please verify.

Verified fix in CWS sw32numbf02.

Checked in DEV300m59.