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Bug 17550 - No KB access to internal frame management?
Summary: No KB access to internal frame management?
Status: CLOSED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: platform
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Window System (show other bugs)
Version: 3.x
Hardware: PC Linux
: P3 blocker (vote)
Assignee: Jiri Mzourek
URL:
Keywords: A11Y
: 22341 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2001-11-12 12:34 UTC by Jesse Glick
Modified: 2008-12-22 19:00 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: DEFECT
Exception Reporter:


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Description Jesse Glick 2001-11-12 12:34:05 UTC
[dev nov 12] According to the L&F keybinding docs shipped in JDK 1.3
documentation, under Metal L&F Alt-Spacebar is supposed to active an
internal frame's window menu. This does not appear to work in NB, at
least not in the Editor window. There is no apparent way using the KB
to maximize the Editor frame, e.g.
Comment 1 _ ttran 2001-11-12 14:49:10 UTC
Assigning it to jmzourek.  UI/HIE must look at this issue.

This is a hard problem.  First off I don't know we disallow this
action.  However on Windows Alt+<spacebar> is a system shortcut which
apps cannot steal.  I remember the Windows Emacs porters had a long
discussion on this issue on their mailing list some years ago.
Comment 2 Jesse Glick 2001-11-12 17:11:40 UTC
Agreed that actually using Alt-Space may not be easy. It does seem
there ought to be *some* way to manipulate these frames, though. Does
it work in Swing demo apps?
Comment 3 Jiri Mzourek 2001-11-12 17:21:10 UTC
I've tried it. Alt-Space works on Solaris, but doesn't work neither on
Linux nor on Win2k. 
JLF says Ctrl-Space should work, see:
http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.A3.html#48630
But it doesn't work anywhere (SwingSet too).
Comment 4 Jesse Glick 2001-11-12 17:49:55 UTC
Hmm, if it doesn't work in SwingSet then we are surely out of luck;
mark WONTFIX if you think that's right. Hopefully there is a JDK bug
filed (for Ctrl-Space that is).
Comment 5 _ ttran 2001-11-13 09:36:24 UTC
> Ctrl-Space

this is used to invoke code completion.  You want to start a new
thread about shortcut on nbui? :-)

However I think that the inability to manipulate internal frames using
kbd only is a significant A11Y problem.  We have to do something.  
Comment 6 Jesse Glick 2001-11-13 10:12:56 UTC
Ack, no, conflicting with code completion would not be good... I have
no useful suggestions here, just noting that it may be a problem.
Comment 7 Jiri Mzourek 2001-11-13 10:35:36 UTC
Dusan, do you have some comments?
Comment 8 dpavlica 2001-11-13 16:04:31 UTC
I find Alt+Spacebar like shortcut for display window menu on this 
link:
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/docs/api/javax/swing/doc-files/Key-
Metal.html#JInternalFrame
so in JLF on this link: 
http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.A3.html#48630
is probably mistake

Theese shortcuts should wotk:
JInternalFrame (Java L&F)
Open (Restore)...Ctrl+F5 or Alt+F5 or Enter
Close...Ctrl+F4 or Alt+F5
Move...Ctrl+F7 or Alt+F7
Resize...Ctrl+F8 or Alt+F8
Minimize...Ctrl+F9 or Alt+F9
Display window menu...Alt+Spacebar
Activate the default button (if defined)...Enter

Let's look that really important shortcut for maximize isn't included 
and could be invoked from window menu only...

In Swing theese shorcuts works except Alt+SpaceBar (Win OS)
In NB doesn't works from upper shorcuts CTRL+F5(Alt+F5),CTRL+F7
(Alt+F7),CTRL+F8(Alt+F8),Alt+SpaceBar

Works in NB:
CTRL+F4(Alt+F4),CTRL+F9(only MDI) and CTRL+F5 could be substituted  
CTRL+number for each view(Not for cloned window)

So if Alt+spacebar is free for use, I vote for use this shortcut for 
invoke window menu of actual view.
Comment 9 _ ttran 2001-11-14 15:25:09 UTC
> So if Alt+spacebar is free for use, I vote for use this shortcut for 
> invoke window menu of actual view.

it seems you contradict yourself.  Alt+spacebar does not work on
Windows.  So there is no "if" here I am afraid
Comment 10 Jiri Mzourek 2001-11-23 10:03:16 UTC
This problem is OS specific. 
SDI mode, Solaris 8 (CDE):
 I'm able to:
  - Move (Alt-F7)
  - Size (Alt-F8)
  - Minimize (Alt-F9)
  - Maximize (Alt-F10)
  - Close (Alt-F4)
  - Alt-Space works too
 etc.
 Problem: these shortcuts are "stronger" than the same NB shortcuts.
Seems to me that this part (SDI) of issue depends on window system of
each OS.

MDI mode should works in general on all OS, but there is another
problem, shortcuts Ctrl-F5, Ctrl-F7 and Ctrl-F8 are unregistered from
Swing in class org.netbeans.core.Main because of conflict with
NetBeans "standard" shortcuts that exists before MDI mode.

So, are there any ideas what we will do with that? 

Comment 11 Jesse Glick 2001-11-23 10:41:23 UTC
We need not worry about SDI. Any decent window manager has KB
shortcuts for basic operations. But having debugger shortcuts directly
conflict with standard Swing MDI shortcuts sounds like a problem.
Comment 12 Jiri Mzourek 2001-11-23 10:48:35 UTC
So, one solution could be to replace standard Swing shortcuts (that
are now removed) by some substitution. But in this case we will have
different behavior than other Java application. But still better than
nothing.
Comment 13 Jiri Mzourek 2001-11-26 09:27:03 UTC
CCing HIE -- we need your feedback.

Seems to me that Ctrl-F7 and Ctrl-F8 are not used by debugger anymore
so we can enable it for Swing again. But, here is still problem with
Ctrl-F5 (open minimized internal window). Any proposal how to solve
this problem? Change debugger shortcut or "Swing" shortcut? What will
be less paintfull for users? 

Comment 14 Jan Chalupa 2001-11-27 11:52:27 UTC
Target milestone -> 3.3.1.
Comment 15 Jan Chalupa 2001-11-27 11:56:13 UTC
Target milestone -> 3.3.1.
Comment 16 Maya Venkatraman 2001-11-30 07:13:23 UTC
I retained Ctrl F5 for debuging while designing the shortcuts
under the assumption that alt + space would work. Now given 
that this does not work and there is no way for users to 
access "Open Window" via keyboard, I would suggest that 
we should use a non-JLF short cut for this. 

Dusan mentions that there is no JLF shortcut for maximize. 

Are these (open and maximize) the only windowing functions
that are not accessible by keyboard now? (even if menu 
does not post others have KB shortcuts ?)


Comment 17 Jiri Mzourek 2001-11-30 14:47:23 UTC
Both Ctrl-F7 and Ctrl-F8 don't work too now, beacuse they are still
disabled in the NetBeans code. Gabo, could you fix it?
Maya, what substitution for Ctrl-F5 do you propose? Thanks, Jirka
Comment 18 dpavlica 2001-11-30 16:12:50 UTC
Small note:
I found subsequently keyboard combination for invoke internal frame's 
window menu (in SDI on Window platform only)>> pres ALT and then UP 
or DOWN

On Solaris has the same function key-combination ALT+SPACE
Comment 19 Maya Venkatraman 2001-12-03 20:35:15 UTC
If we can get KB focus on the minimized-window in the IDE(MDI) and
click enter - it will open. Enter is one of the shortcuts
recommended for this should be enough of a substitute for Ctrl + F5.
However, it seems that we cannot actually get the focus on to
the minimized window icon. If we have two editor windows open -
and window A is fronted while window B is not - going to Windows >
Editor > B will front B - but if both A and B are minimized this
does not work (focus does not move to the mininized B). I will
file a bug for this - but if this bug is fixed and Enter
works to open the minimized window that has focus - we do not
need another short cut for that. 
Comment 20 Gabriel Tichy 2001-12-04 13:35:11 UTC
Ctrl-F7 and Ctrl-F8 shortcuts are enabled for Swing again. Fixed in 
[release33].

Comment 21 Jan Chalupa 2002-01-11 14:02:55 UTC
Target milestone -> 3.4
Comment 22 Jan Chalupa 2002-01-11 14:06:40 UTC
Target milestone -> 3.4
Comment 23 Jan Chalupa 2002-01-11 14:08:01 UTC
Target milestone -> 3.4
Comment 24 Jan Chalupa 2002-01-11 14:11:01 UTC
Target milestone -> 3.4
Comment 25 Jiri Mzourek 2002-01-18 15:35:47 UTC
The same problem is in SwingSet. So, changing the status. We should
count on this problem.
Comment 26 Chris Ledantec 2002-01-18 15:44:46 UTC
if this problem is in swing set then it's a jdk problem... has it been
filed against the jdk team and do they know about it for 1.4.1 and 1.4.2?

Comment 27 Jiri Mzourek 2002-01-18 15:52:03 UTC
x
Comment 28 Jiri Mzourek 2002-01-18 15:52:35 UTC
Changed because of QA rules.
Comment 29 Jiri Mzourek 2002-04-24 12:54:25 UTC
*** Issue 22341 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue. ***
Comment 30 Quality Engineering 2003-07-01 15:48:56 UTC
Resolved for 3.4.x or earlier, no new info since then -> verified.

Comment 31 Quality Engineering 2003-07-01 16:12:47 UTC
Resolved for 3.4.x or earlier, no new info since then -> closing.