Issue 3191 - NNTP access: mail2news gateway mangles Message-ID
Summary: NNTP access: mail2news gateway mangles Message-ID
Status: CLOSED WONT_FIX
Alias: None
Product: Infrastructure
Classification: Infrastructure
Component: Mailing lists (show other issues)
Version: current
Hardware: All All
: P1 (highest) Trivial (vote)
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: stx123
QA Contact: issues@www
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: 1780 6848
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Reported: 2002-02-25 12:26 UTC by ooo
Modified: 2004-10-15 04:13 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Issue Type: DEFECT
Latest Confirmation in: ---
Developer Difficulty: ---


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Description ooo 2002-02-25 12:26:54 UTC
The mail2news gateway mangles the Message-ID: header content in the way that the
newsgroup name is prepended. This leads to broken threads if replies are posted
via NNTP but read in mailing list, because the post has a References: header
content with the mangled name in it, which of course is not available as a
Message-ID in the mailing list. Furthermore, the mail2news gateway does not
convert any already existing References: header content, so that replies
originating from the mailing list are not threaded in news. If we don't fix this
before going public with NNTP we'll just look silly.

Solution: do not touch any Message-ID, NEVER!

mail2news must convert all To: and Cc: header contents being known mailing list
names to appropriate Newsgroups: header contents, generating a cross-posting if
necessary. If the original mail doesn't have a Message-ID the gateway must of
course generate a unique one.

news2mail must convert all Newsgroups: header contents to appropriate To: header
contents, and maintain a dupe database to not generate identical mails.
Comment 1 timon.schroeter 2002-03-05 18:13:29 UTC
Hi,

fixing this before offering the newgroups as alternatives to the
mailinglists is a _must_. On the germanophone discusslist we received
mulitple complaints from people outside the project (via news@OOo
mostly) that the threading was broken and the newsgroups not usable
like this...  A lot of people are interested in using the newsgroups,
 let's fix this and tell the world about them, :-)

Regards,

Timon
Comment 2 Unknown 2002-03-08 21:31:53 UTC
Assigning to support to figure out what is going on with this.
Comment 3 Unknown 2002-03-08 21:32:08 UTC
Accepting.
Comment 4 timon.schroeter 2002-03-08 22:08:27 UTC
Hi Taska,

I took the liberty to set the priority on this to one. Why, you will
ask: The reason is simpel: SUN will shut down the support newsservers
for staroffice on March, 15th. For us, this is a unique opportunity to
gahter new developers and users, if we have our newsserver working
well at that point in time (meaning threading works). Moderation is
not such a big issue, if necessary we can split moderation beteen a
couple of people for each list, but threading, as it ist now, is
inacceptable and will scare most people away. So please get this issue
fixed before the 15th!

Timon 
Comment 5 joergwartenberg 2002-03-08 22:35:27 UTC
Hi,

I agree to Timon. It would be a great benefit if we can recruit some
of these very expirenced StarOffice Certified Users for OOo. Some of
them have already tested our newsgroups, but they left us after short
time because the broken threading.
You must know, that the StarOffice support groups are high traffic
newsgroups, splitted in about 40 specialized groups. If we get the
same traffic to our few user...-groups, it would be absloutely
important to have a working threading.

CU Jörg
Comment 6 Unknown 2002-03-12 17:40:05 UTC
The internal issue number for this is PCN8668; we've requested an
update from the operations team about this.
Comment 7 Unknown 2002-03-28 00:33:07 UTC
I've gotten feedback from the developer on this.  He says that
mangling message IDs is a must, because of the way NNTP works.  If we
did not mangle message IDs, we would have problems with crosspostings
(they would be seen as duplicates) and in other areas:

>What if I'm subscribed to nbdev, nbui, and announce, and I send a
>mail message to all three?  It'll go through on the first two, but
>not necessarily on announce -- the NNTP server has to be willing to
>accept it for both nbdev and nbui, but not to assume that it can be
>posted to announce automatically.  And NNTP servers typically use
>unique message IDs to avoid duplicate messages -- without regard to
>the list of newsgroups, because that's how NNTP works.

Apparently this was already brought up awhile back by the NetBeans
folks, and we had the same answer from them.  I'm going to assign this
to Stefan for his feedback.


Comment 8 ooo 2002-04-03 12:17:03 UTC
I can't believe that mangling Message-ID is a must. Just ask Mozilla how they do it with 
their mozilla-*@mozilla.org mailing lists and netscape.public.mozilla.* 
newsgroups, they seem to get it right.
Comment 9 lsuarezpotts 2002-09-17 07:57:35 UTC
Hi
Has there been any progress on this issue since... April?
louis 
Comment 10 lsuarezpotts 2002-10-29 20:00:22 UTC
closing with worksforme b/c I'm not sure this is still relevant.
Please reopen as needed.
Louis
Comment 11 joergwartenberg 2002-10-30 06:27:10 UTC
Hi Louis,

sure this issue is still very relevant (Once issue 6848 is fixed of
course). This makes the thread view of newsgroups/mailinglists
unusable, which is a very often used feature!
At the german lang project we had comments of very expirienced
StarOffice supporters(from the former starnews support groups) who
will not join us because the unusable newsgroups. This is an important
loss for us!

This problem is easyly reproduceable for everyone with a simple
mail/news client.
Only the CollabNet newsserver have this problem, all other mail/news
gateways I know, work very well! Have a look at e.g. news.mozilla.org

CU Jörg
Comment 12 lsuarezpotts 2002-10-30 17:25:18 UTC
thanks for the update, Jörg,
-Louis
Comment 13 brant 2002-11-04 01:00:52 UTC
This works for me.  I am using Mozilla and it shows threads properly.
Comment 14 joergwartenberg 2002-11-04 06:39:35 UTC
Hi Brant

If everybody use the NNTP only for reading the mails, the threading is
OK, but if anyone posts a mail via NNTP, then the mail2news gateway
mangles the Message-IDs.
Please remember that our NNTP service is not going public yet, so only
some test mails are posted via the NNTP service.

CU Jörg
Comment 15 stx123 2003-03-31 08:49:22 UTC
I don't see, that we will have a news server for OpenOffice.org's 
mailing lists. I would recommend to use GMANE's service. 
(http://www.gmane.org/)
Comment 16 Martin Hollmichel 2004-10-15 04:13:08 UTC
close issue.